Two examples of why Germans get a bad reputation

I just went to the cinema with my girlfriend to see Burn After Reading (very good, very funny), but had a pretty stressful time actually getting to our seat at the cinema in the Hackescher Höfe which is always busy on a Saturday night but tonight was manic, completely rammed.
We thought we'd arrived with plenty of time to spare, but the only seats left were ones right at the front and on the perimeter, but, there was a whole line of seats (6 in total), so we asked if they were free and were told 'no, they are reserved' by a guy who looked like some tosspot banker from Frankfurt. The next thing that happened probably shocked me more than anything else that happened subsequently, my girlfriend, who will usually go out of her way to avoid any confrontation actually stood up to the officious little twat guarding the seats and just plonked herself down. I was still silent at that point, but then the guys friends arrived, and the inevitable arguing ensued between my girlfriend and the other Germans, but as I can understand most aspects of a German conversation, and thinking that my girlfriend needed some backup at this point, I said (without raising my voice, or swearing), 'does it really matter if you don't all sit together, because you're probably not all going to be talking to each other simultaneously while the films on are you?'. The response I got from one of the guys was "you fucking British arsehole", "arschloch" etc. I responded by telling him to calm down, the comeback was something along the lines of "You fucking shut up, I will kill you, i'm dangerous" blah blah blah.
Seriously the guy would have had a cardiac arrest if he'd lifted his arm higher than his head. But the thing that bothered me about this is the 'British' thing, he couldn't have just called me an arsehole, he had to call me a 'British arsehole'. I could have really lowered the bar and called him a fucking Nazi, but then things would have really got ugly.
The second thing that's still got me thinking was an exchange with a girl at an apartment I was looking at in Friedrichshain last night, i'd carried my bike up 3 flights of stairs because I only had a flimsy lock for it and the area was not exactly affluent. The first thing the girl said to me was "What, you don't trust the German people?' My reply was 'no, I just don't trust not having my bike stolen'.
So, to be honest, i'm just thinking right now, what is it with Germans? They really need to accept the fact that there is something called 'immigration' and the fact that other nationalities live in their country, they seem to be incredibly screwed up about their own identities, and therefore get incredibly defensive whenever an English speaker (especially a British person) confronts them. After living here for nearly 4 years, i'm getting sick of their old fashioned, twee little ways, and their desperate attempts to prevent any kind of change to their 'culture', if you can call drinking beer, eating sausages, being sanctimonious and wearing hideous clothes, 'culture'.

so you and your girlfriend go into a full cinema and nick someone elses seats and you are pissed off that you got shouted at? Did they say anything that wasn't true?

6 seats in a completely packed cinema? The guy should have just accepted that his 6 friends should have got there a bit earlier. There were two of us and 6 empty seats. I think the towels on sun loungers analogy could be called in to play here.

Sounds like you have issues with Germans in general, rather then with these people as individuals (which is where your ire should solely fall).

What does it matter that there were "only 2 of you" as compared to "6 empty seats"? Reserving seats for others is normal behavior, no?

That's bullshit Conq', my issue is with being called a 'British' arsehole, I never once referred to his nationality during the confrontation.

And btw, why do you bother to ask if the seats are already taken, if you then go ahead and ignore the answer?

There's a wonderful quote from Sven Hassel (Danish war story writer) where a miscreant is punished by being "posted to distant frontier district where the locals were so suspicious of each other that they took their bicycles in to church with them". A good way of assessing a dodgy area I feel.

You'll have to ask my girlfriend that. But I think you're missing the point of the OP tom, (stop, press, TT member gets the wrong end of the stick!) I was actually about to suggest that we leave and get our tickets refunded.

It is completely understandable that you were angry at what the idiot said, but...

What was bolded is why I think you have some issues with Germans. You didn't see the people as the individuals who were rude or whatever (in the case of the woman in the second example). You saw them as Germans, and you seem to me to see Germans as culturally inferior as well as associate Germans who aren't Nazis with Nazism.

And I suppose you never make observations about other nationalities as a whole do you? Get off your high horse Conq. Despite the tone of the last couple of sentences in the original post, I am serious about Germany's unwillingness to accept foreigners in to the folds of it's society.

I wish Britain was slightly more "unwilling" to accept foreigners

btw, if the cinema was that packed and all these seats were "reserved" for this fat businessman, how did you manage to buy any tickets in the first place!?

But only the brown ones, right?

There's the thing, seats at this cinema aren't allocated, it's first come, first served, all you need is a ticket. So i'm still intrigued by this mentality of, 'there's a coat/towel/sock hanging over it, therefore it is reserved for the next week/month/year/decade.

Could just be unlucky...Maybe this guy has had a few bad encounters with British people and he counts all British as bad. Even the girl may not understand cultural differences..she might take the bike thing personal. But I'm from the US, no way I would leave my bike any where unlocked.

The cinema thing though, even in the US you buy your tickets, someone gets seats and saves them while someone gets popcorn. People usually respect that.

Generally, no, because I know there are all personality types in a society and that blanket statements are usually not accurate. Germans aren't the only country's citizens that you have issues with, so there is a pattern. If I were to say something like that about UK citizens or, specifically, Englishmen, you would almost certainly go ballistic.

I hear you man. But its a bit of a grey area, that one in the theatre, as where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable reserving. But the British comment is well out of line. Not a nice experience on a Saturday night. But there are some good germans out there, I think there was even a movie about one...

I'm actually surprised to hear that the seats were first come first served- that's just so, well, un-German! I thought it was a law that one bought tickets for certain seats? Maybe it's just Bavaria... On another note, I don't think any English person can talk too much trash about the Germans- after all it was "Angles" & "Saxons" that first populated England after all...

I know you are angry with the way the situation devolved, but honestly- had you been the one reserving seats for your friends, only to have 2 people plonk down after asking if they were free or not, I think you would've thought those 2 people to be incredibly rude. When people get pissed off like that, rightly or wrongly, they often resort to saying the most offending thing they can. Sorry, while it was wrong for the guy to bring up the "british" thing, you were also wrong in taking those seats.

Not true, at all Conq, I despair at humanity in general and I am fully aware of the problems with my country and its inhabitants, however, I take issue with ignorant numpties who don't know how to talk to people.

I am kinda gobsmacked. Did I understand correctly?
There were seats free, but they were undesirable - right at the front and on the perimeter.

There were 6 seats free, cared for by a guy who looked like some tosspot banker from Frankfurt (can anyone explain what that is).
So where were the others? Were they getting popcorn, or beer, or tacos or even on the loo? Obviously they must have been there early, too. I would assume they were taking the time, before the film began, to arm themselves with the usual cinematic munchies.

The guy waiting for his pals says: "the seats are reserved". Undaunted, OP's girlfriend actually stands up to the officious little twat and plonks herself down on one of them.
This does not go down well when the guy's friends return. duhhhhhh

The OP obviously commends himself for his self-restraint (look at all the things he cudda said...). He has a wonderful peace-keeping idea and says (without raising his voice, or swearing): 'does it really matter if you don't all sit together, because you're probably not all going to be talking to each other simultaneously ..."

In other words, what he was really saying: "My girlfriend and I do not like the seats right at the front and on the perimeter. We think that two of you should leave your group take the undesirable ones and make way for us in these better seats.

The title of this string is:
"examples of why Germans get a bad rep".
I am just curious at why he cannot understand the outburst, in the first place.

My real opinion was expressed very eloquently tonight by someone in the cinema.

Uhoh, I can see where this is going. Just in case you missed it Conkie, I was talking about Germans, not Jews.

Who knows, maybe that officious little twat guarding the seats who looked like a tosspot banker from Frankfurt was a good German - up to that moment. I guess that his night out at the cinema with some pals was not the greatest experience for him.

You see, there was this British guy with his girlfriend ...

Why would you assume this? There weren't any coats or other items of clothing on these other seats, the banker (use your imagination to think of what a tosspot could be, assuming you have an imagination) was sitting at the end of this row, barking instructions at my girlfriend. Like I said before, I was prepared to get the tickets refunded, but my girlfriend was not.


Why not just state your real opinion?

Now, could it be that Orla's stance on this is guided by her nationality? Is there just the faintest, vaguest chance?

This has to be one of the most dishonest statements ever from Conquistador, and there have been quite a few in the past.

I guess you conveniently forgot your anti-Israel and anti-US tirades, FC? No surprise there.

Wow, FC, I empathize with you. You are getting a whole lotta sh#t here! Umm...in hindsight, your girlfriend was taking care of herself, but got you two in a situation that wasn't ever going to have a chance of going down well. Sounds like it just is the way it is, that Germans are towel-layers. That sounds really annoying, and any person not German is gonna feel pissed.

I think that when we are angry, we go to our stereotypes. Fat Pig. Bitch. Whatever puts our opponent in a nasty light. Yeah, he shouldn't have gone there with British, but he did. Kind of like now you are responding with what was it..Frankfurt Banker? Fact is, he was rude, you weren't getting the best situation before this rude comment...but it wasn't ever going to be pretty.

I guess now you've got to work out whatever you've got to, so you don't go to his level, and call the next German a Nazi, or Frankfurt Banker, or Towel-Layer. Bottom line is, we all know not to say the N word, we've got those instincts in check, but that leaves a lot of other people still a target there with our minds, if not our words, when we get angry.

I say, take five...try to focus on the good points of the next ten Germans you meet, and do this purely for your own sake. It's tough being a foreigner, and sometimes it gets to you. And do your best not to put yourself in confrontational situations that have no good ending.

I got a post removed because of excessive quoting, here's hoping that this one stays.

You question my assumptions, yet who is saying that his friends were not there? Unless you mean: "glued to their seats". Would stocking up on refreshments outside, count as "not being there", for you?


What is it with these towels ...?

My opinion?
Your details change from post to post. However, if I have understood properly: The guy was sitting at the end of the row. He says the seats are reserved for his pals. Your girlfriend takes absolutely no notice and plonks herself down on one of the seats.
I am trying to envision the logistics of this. The mind boggles at how she managed. Did the guy just stand up to let her do so? Or, was it at this moment that he started barking?

I think your girlfriend was wrong for doing what she did. Just as I don't think much of your suggestion - that two in the group take seats that you and your girlfriend rejected because they were crap.
For me, you were both very much out of line. That is my opinion, toned down without swearing.


I think you may be a tad hung up on nationality here. Bit of an ol' chip on your shoulder?

I was taken aback by your posting - as if it was you who had been hard done by. You seem to lack savoir faire. When things go skew ways you wave a nationalistic finger. It pointed at the Germans because, when you rode roughshod over them, they did not give in silently. It is now pointing at me because I just don't agree with your poor-me post.

Believe me, I don't think your ignorance has anything to do with being British at all.

thassall.

German people generally grow up in teeny tiny little apartments and are live under the thumbs of "authority figures" their whole miserable lives. That's why in those rare occasions where they taste a bit of freedom or a semblance of control they go completely nuts. Notably driving and anonymous vacation behavior. I was in Greece once and saw a german tourist treat the help like complete crap, and the whole 'towels on the beach chairs' thing is an internationally-known sterotype that has the unfortunate aspect of being invariably true.

Also, First Citizen is dead right on a critical point: They always pointedly add whatever nationality they think people are as a reflexive insult modifier.

I distinctly recall a TT post where a person on an ICE train asked if a seat was vacant, and the German guy in the next seat said it was his wife's who was bringing back food for them from the dining car. Seeing no little red reservation indicator, coat, luggage or other evidence there was anyone actually there, the person asking said "well, I'll just sit down here until she comes back." She never did, and the guy dashed off the train two hours later. Inspired, I actually tried this myself a few weeks later and exactly the same thing happened ... with the person next to me literally squirming for three whole hours on the ICE because his bluff had been called.

Reserving a seat for one's spouse whilst the other is on the go (sidenote; how typically German was it that in all three examples I cite, the man was sitting on his ass and making his wife go get the popcorn? ... that would've been the tip-off in the States that he was a big fat liar!) is absoultely fine. Three women chatting with empty seats between them because the men are making a drink run would be a reasonable indicator as well. But if one person is blocking six seats, I'd say "you can't unilaterally block six unreserved seats, because if your friends aren't here now as the movie is about to start, then there's a very good chance that there will be at least two no-shows ... and if they show up late, tough crap."

I find it deliciously ironic that most of the responses one gets from German people when one describes behaving in an anglo-american polite way in such a situation are along the lines of "in this culture you have to assert yourself!" But then if one actually does assert one's self, then one becomes a "<insert foreign nationality here> asshole."

Hard to believe ...

The inhabitants of the British Isles are generally called Engländer, Tommies or Limeys in Germany ... and the German equivalent of "fucking" would be "Scheiß-"

If you ask for permission expect to have to deal with the answer if it isn't what you want to hear. In the future, just sit down, ignore what is said to you, and if they touch you its an assault crime and they go to the clink. This is how the rules of our society are constructed. Then of course there are the rules of polite society, which if followed, nice guys usually finish last.

On the bike thing; buy a better lock. And why were you looking at an apartment in a part of town you don't trust?

Actually, just write the whole day off as an aberration and start fresh today.

Wer zu spät kommt, den bestraft das Leben.

Loose translation: life is hard for those who arrive late.

Just suck it up and move on. You didn't deserve to be attacked for your background, but your GF acted wrongly.

What the?? HELLO!? At what point in this whole discussion did I mention 'refreshments'?! You seem to be having a monologue with yourself there matey.
The guy was sitting on the inside of the row of seats, that's how my girlfriend managed to sit down.


I 'wave a nationalistic finger'? You give dense a bad name, it was him that referred to my nationality. The whole point of the OP was him referring to my nationality, doofus.

We've got Inspector Clouseau on the case here, believe what you want, that's what he said.

I don't get this. If you did exactly the same thing in a British cinema, you'd also get into an argument, and possibly end up being stabbed in the chest as well. And if you were German, it would take about three milliseconds for your opponent to use that against you.

@FC seems to me like you wanted to vent your frustration but didn't like it too much when people disagreed with you or questioned some of what you said - to me it's part and parcel of using a net forum, people will disagree and one just has to accept it. I agree the guy was wrong with what he said to you, but I also agree with the other posters in that perhaps it wasn't the best thing to do to go ahead and take the seats after he had said they were taken. I live by that cinema and go there a lot, if I want a good seat, I make sure to get there early. IMHO I don't really think it's fair to get there late, decide you don't like the seats available and ask for a refund, I'm not sure that you would get one anyway as the cinema has fulfilled their obligation by selling you tickets for seats that are available, but that's probably a whole separate thread in itself...

Talking of discrimination, why are bankers from Frankfurt tosspots - just because a person looking like a banker happened to be in the cinema before you, and got some good seats for himself and his friends? And what does the famous 'reserving sun stretchers at 5am and then turn up around midday for a toasting session' have to do with keeping seats free for your friends just a few min behind you?

Your girlfriend was basically down right rude. If seats are being kept for someone, then there being kept. There doesn't have to be a pile of random clothing lying on each seat to confirm this.

The mere fact you asked if the seats were free in the first place probably pissed the guy off even more, than if you just sat down.

Coming on here bitching about it is pretty pathetic as well. The fact that there is very few, if anyone agreeing with you should give you the hint.

I agree with Small Town Boy, you're lucky being refered to as a British arsehole was all you got.

I'd be well pissed off being called "British".

I'm English.

Unfortunately, because it's usually true. It takes one to know one

It's a bit like saying "Philadelphia Lawyer". Everyone knows exactly what you mean.

A good friend of mine has a Frankfurt banker as her boyfriend, and he seems to be quite nice...could be the exception from the rule, though...

This topic could just as well have been titled "Two examples of why British get a bad reputation" ...

I can just about understand the bicycle thing if you haven't got a decent lock for it. Do you carry it into your current apartment as well or is this action limited to a new and unknown part of town?

But if your girlfriend had pulled her audacious act on me, and her behavior was way out of line, you would have had the ushers and manager to deal with and would possibly been asked to vacate the premises (former usher here). Your girlfriend caused the trouble. If she had bitten the bullet and either accepted the inconvenient seats or agreed to return (or resell) the tickets you would not have been insulted. The Frankfurt tosspot banker provides a much better target for your rage and indignation than your girlfriend. His swearing at you was out of line as well but I blame that on the testosterone, not on his passport.

On a side-note: A party of ten or so met up for this movie last Friday. The organizer picked the tickets up about five hours before the show and almost wasn't given the tickets as there were no ten connecting seats left. We ended up in two groups of two and two of three, IIRC. One group of two had never met before and ended up sitting together. Did we rant and rage and demand perfect seats? No. The party organizer said that she had learned from the experience to pick up the tickets for a popular movie earlier, like the night before. Benefit from her experience, live and learn.

I find the inability to queue here much more annoying than the seat saving.

Well, like someone else on this thread mentioned earlier, the sunbed stereotype is actually (unfortunately) true, now imagine that concept being brought in to play in a cinema where 99% of the seats are taken apart from 2 on the very corner, where there is hardly any point in watching the movie, and there is a charmless, rude little gobshite simply sitting there, just saying 'diese platze sind bezetzt' (may be a couple of typos there, but what the hell, phonetically it's correct).
Then when my girlfriend takes a seat I think 'well, there are 6 empty seats here, if two of his friends get the duff seats on the corner then that's too bad, they should have got here earlier'. So to make it clear once and for all, the first words I uttered, in a completely unaggressive way were 'does it really matter if some of your friends have to sit apart from you?'. So do you really think being called a 'British arsehole' is a fair response? And then having the guy say 'I will fucking kill you'?


I'm not bitching, I wanted to raise a point about how Germans invariably resort to using a person's nationality against them in an argument. I remember reading a thread about someone who found a note on a pile of laundry they'd left next to a communal washing machine in their house in Munich, that said something like 'you stupid foreigner, don't leave your stuff here'. There are other examples if you trawl the many posts on TT.

One small point there Sara, the girl that made that comment was living in the apartment that I was looking at, and actually made no effort to be friendly or even superficially pleasant. That was the first thing she said to me. Why does it matter to her if I carry my bike up to her front door?

The fact that your immediate thought to call him a Nazi shows that you too think in terms of nationalistic insults.

I find it amazing that someone can complain about someone being rude about your nationality and then on another thread say it's ok to laugh about people because of their build.

Pot, kettle?

Do you or don't you carry it into your current apartment? If yes, did you tell her so? It might help her understand foreign ways.

Well, you are right now using their nationality against them as well ... so don't be crying about them using yours. If you are saying, well two or three or maybe even ten did it, as is proven on TT, I hope you realize this is TT, usually people will not write about all the times they have been insulted without someone using their nationality. There are over 80 million people in Germany, even 100 examples would not prove that Germans invariably use someone's nationality to insult them.
The six seats were maybe empty, but they were reserved. Pretty normal behavior in a movie theater. You even asked if they were free, and the guy said no they're not (if that's what he said, it is pretty standard to express it that way), and then your girlfriend goes and sits down, I would have been pissed off too if I was him!
And it is not like those 6 seats were the only ones left, there were two others, that were just not good enough for you (but in your opinion are for two of that group). How about next time you just get there earlier as well?
You, FC, are full of crap, and that has nothing to do with your nationality. Better?

So I was in the wrong carrying my bike up to the girls apartment? Seriously?

Or, maybe they were running late and their nice friend got there early enough to save them seats.


Yes, your girlfriend behaved like a tit and the guy pick on, what was to him your obvious flaw, being 'British'. That's how insults work.


I'm sorry, but you are and while you have your little rant, you are sweepingly suggesting that this is a German problem, maybe your just a little over senstive.