Invisible dog fences

A quick emergency question. Does anybody know how to describe the "Invisible dog fence" that you can buy in the UK? The dog wears a collar, around the garden are either buried or fixed on posts electric wiring which carry a signal. If the dog gets within a certain distance, the collar emits beeps, and if it tries to go through the fence it gets a small shock. Ok not wonderful, but I have friends with two energetic labs who know how it works, and the dogs do remain within the garden and don't go into the area where the cars drive in.

Am leaving for two weeks on Thursday and my sister in law is in hospital. Her puppy (5 1/2 months and probably about to come into season in a few weeks) is nicely energetic and nutty and totally out of control. I have just spoken with two of her daughters, and we really need to solve the fencing problem before a) she comes out of hospital b. the dog comes into season. The neighbour had apparently removed the fencing (old and falling down), and although she has asked him, he still has not replaced it with anything. One of the electric fences would actually be the only thing that might keep this sweet but young dog in the garden.

I have googled this but cannot find it, only lots of sites in the uk. Any ideas?? Like yesterday.

Sonic Fence and Tierzaun site link

For Gawd's sake DO NOT get an invisible fence. If you need a quick solution, go for something like the electric pet fence. It is based on the same principle as the electric sheep fences, but with a lower shock suitable for dogs and/or cats. It can be placed anywhere, doesn't need any permits, and doesn't have to be built in a circle to be "charged". So you can start at one corner of the house and go around in a half-circle to the other corner of the house or a wall. You can also buy it in a plain version without any electric shock.

It not only keeps your dog in, but also keeps other dogs out, which an invisible fence won't do. So if the bitch is in heat, an invisible fence won't keep other dogs from coming in and mounting her, while something like the petfence will protect her from dogs and keep any other animals from wandering in.



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Boundary train the dog. (and also don't leave it alone outside unattended)

As Bipa said- an Invisible Fence doesn't keep other dogs, critters, people from entering. Also, some dogs don't care about the shock once they learn they only get one shock and then are free (some breeds don't care more than others- labs are often one of those breeds). The dog is then free to roam and won't go back in.
Also, it can cause other behavior problems e.g. people walking by saying "hi!!!" in loud high pitched voices and talking to the dog and then the dog now gets frustrated with people because it can't go by them. Some cases can cause aggression and it doesn't stop kids from going in and petting the dog and then if they play with the dog and the dog accidentally nips (it's a pup) and the kid says it was bit by the dog then you have all sorts of problems. Many people don't understand the difference between play bite, nip, and actual bite.

Sorry, but those fences are animal cruelty to me! I would find a different solution and if you can't find one that DOESNT hurt the poor dog, then the lab has to stay inside.

Why does she have to be outisde in the garden anyways? Labs need to go on long walks for many hours a day...so there's no point in letting her stay outside on her own...

Plus you can't leave a dog outside unsupervised when it comes "into season". All other male dogs walking by are going to go crazy and the poor lab can't even get away from them

Thank you everyone for your ideas. I do agree that the invisible fence sounds cruel. My friends use it for their labs as I said, so I thought that perhaps it wasn't as bad as I initially had thought. And of course, Dodo, I hadn't thought that other dogs can get in to her.

This puppy is sweet, but a slightly odd mix. She is mostly (there is something else in there but we can't see it) a mix of dalmatian and fox terrier. Yes, weird sounding, but basically she doesn't look too bad. Terrier head, dalmatian body, though a bit shorter, a big black patch on the otherwise spotted body, and a few whiskers! We are just waiting to see which dog had the influence on the brains! My sister-in-law's grown daughters persuaded her to get the puppy, since she has been living alone since her husband died for four years. She walks her dog about 5 times a day (some short and some longer walks) but when she comes out of hospital, she will not be strong enough to do this for a while, and the puppy is not yet properly trained, still young and very scatty, and pulls a lot. She has already spoken to somebody about dog training classes, probably a good idea. I don't think she can do it on her own, and I personally think that Gina would be very good at agility training - that is if the terrier has the main influence on the brains!

Her daughters hadn't thought about Gina (named by her grandchildren!) coming into season, so I have been trying to organise them to do something about the garden before she reaches that stage. As I said I am flying home tomorrow so I won't be around to help them. But I have passed on some of the info about secure dog fencing (without electricity) - it's a bit pricey, but then perhaps a handyman can put together something from the basic description of the fence - ie length, number of posts, height, strength of mesh, etc is all given, so that does help with working out a DIY version.

Anyway, thanks again.

Seriously consider getting the puppy spayed. I doubt your sister will want to breed the dog, and spaying will really make life easier for everyone, including the dog. I had my dog spayed before she ever came into heat (at around 7 months), and avoided having to deal with it altogether. Have the kids call up the vet and ask for an appt. It will cost around 200 euros give or take but worth every penny.

Cheers!

Here in Germany the general wisdom is that the bitch should have been in heat at least once before getting spayed. Why not just put up a normal fence?

Edit: It's interesting to see those links for the fence because I actually thought putting a shock collar on a dog was illegal in Germany...

If the problem is also just that she needs an area where she can go do her business if she's not fully housetrained yet, you could consider fencing in a smaller area of the yard. Of course this is no replacement for the walks, but still lets her go out when she neeeeeds to.

It's great that you are trying to help her out. You should also remind her that a big dog like that can develop much worse behavioral issues, if she doesn't get to go on walks for several hours a day. Hangin out in the garden won't do it for the dog. Maybe she could hire someone to take care of that or just let the dog stay with a relative or friend who can take the dog on walks. The reason the dog is hyper as it is might be due to the fact that she is not being taken for walks enough right now. Is that the case? The worse case scenario is for the dog to turn her frustration into aggression...

At 7 months of age a dog is still growing and if she gets spayed too early she won't have a chance to develop normally. Besides, I don't understand how people who don't wanna deal with their dog being in heat would buy a female dog at all??? Spaying a dog should only be an option, if there is a health issue or the dog is being kept in a home with other dogs of the opposite sex.

If she ends up wanting to spay her, she's not supposed to do so when she is so young. Not before one year of age.

Yes, many German vets are quite old fashioned or even a bit ignorant about the topic of neutering. If you're interested, there are many articles online which explain why early spaying before a pet goes into heat is better than waiting.

Spaying (Ovariohysterectomy): The Benefits in Dogs


More info:
Early Sterilization Program
Early-Age Spay/Neuter
Neutering Pros and Cons
Early Spay / Neuter. How young is too young?

If you fix an animal when it is still a puppy, it behaviorally remains a puppy.

It is, although the relevant laws are... interpretable as usual.

Could you give me any scientific studies that show that? I haven't seen any, and I've read up a bit on the topic.

I can give you the phone numbers of various dog trainers who have degrees in what they do and have advised me, if you are really that interested. You can't really argue that fixing a dog doesn't change his temperament, can you? You shouldn't do it too late, either, if you have a male dog which may tend towards aggressive behavior, for example, but if you do it before the dog is adult, you prevent his/her ever becoming adult.

Exactly. I would always want to give my dog a chance to grow up. I have a male dog myself and I would never neuter him, unless there is a medical condition that requires it.

I'm from the U.S. myself and it's terrible how much neutering is promoted there. Lets not forget it's the same country that allows dogs, including Huskies to be sold in tiny glas tanks and cages (full of feces etc...) at pet stores . When it comes to pets the U.S. seems to be more of a third world country...

I have both a male and a female dog. I had Bonnie spayed because I wasn't about to breed mixed puppies. All the trainers I spoke with when dealing with Joeys' problems kept telling me that fixing him would make him calm down. So I also had him fixed and it didn't make any difference in his behaviour. None at all. My vet, who did both operations, warned me that it probably wouldn't change Joey's temperament at all, and he was right. So have your trainers call me and/or my vet

Spay/Neuter Myths and Facts
Myths & Facts About Spaying Or Neutering
Early Spay/Neuter: An Overview

Promote and perform early spaying and neutering

I think that the puppy is hyper because she just needs to grow up. She should have been called Tigger I think. Bouncing is what she does best! The garden situation is just a temporary one until "Mum" is fit again, but of course it would be useful to sometimes be able to let her out in the garden to do a wee. Pup does have lots of energy, which is why my sister-in-law, a keen golfer and walker, takes her out on lots of walks. It is just this week and probably the next two or three weeks that the walking will be a little more restricted. The dog stayed with us for two days, now is in her own house together with our niece and her two children, (she has come here to house and dog sit). But the daughter will not be able to stay much longer when her mother comes home. My husband could not walk the dog (I did it) because he has strained ligaments in his knee, and holding on to a strong pulling dog was painful for the knee.

The discussion about when to spay is interesting. The vet here said that it would be better after the first heat. I know others who do it earlier too. I think I would also sort of be influenced by the growth pattern. Perhaps after the first heat and before one year old. Anyway, I think that was the idea that my sister in law had too. We just don't want to give her an unexpected present of puppies - definitely not a good idea for dog or owner!

Ok Bipa, thanks for that. I might give the vet a call and see what can be done. I just don't think that our nieces will take enough care. One is a doctor, v busy, the other one is working and has two daughters 8 and 10. The third one, here at the mo, lives 5 hours away.

Our Westie bitch had a bad uterine infection when she came into heat, and the vet in Belgium told us that it was exacerbated by the hormones, and that it would happen again and again during each following heat, but be worse each time. So basically we didn't have much of an option there. The breeder was surprised that it had happened, but agreed with the vet's diagnosis. Must say, though, that it has not been a problem for her weight wise.

It is bogus that spay/neuter a pup it remains a pup! That is NOT true. I'm sorry Ruthie, but you'll have to talk to those trainers again. If you'd like I can give you lots of research into the area.
Spaying too soon, like what a lot of shelters do, can lead to problems with growth and you can get a pup that is bigger than it genetically should be due to changed hormones affecting the closing of the growth plates. Shelters do it early though because they are trying to combat the issue of too many animals.
The rule of when to spay/neuter changes depending on who you talk to. You can get the growth plates xrayed and then by looking at the films you can tell if they have closed. If they have spay/neuter. If you don't want to spend the money doing that then most say either after the first heat if it's a female or if you don't want to wait (or if it sexually matures later than normal) you should be safe by the time the animal is a year. Most places say once the animal is at least 6 months (minimum) you should be okay, but many recommend waiting until at least 8 months or a bit later.

Spay/neuter does effect the temperament, but for the better. It does alter the metabolism of the dog, but not drastically and as a responsible pet owner you just watch the weight and do not over feed, exercise the dog (mental and physical), and feed a high quality food.

So- spay/neuter doesn't keep a dog a puppy. It changes the hormone levels, but doesn't cause a 'Peter Pan' syndrome and yes, you can neuter a male dog once it's mature. It'll take longer for the hormones to leave it's system and it still might have some of the characteristic that are more common to intact males, but aggression is a thing that is part of a dog. Intact or not a dog can be aggressive (just like people!), spaying and neutering can help- no matter the age, but might help some more than others (since dogs are individuals it's not a one size fits all- unless we're talking learning theory and then it's a bit more across the board).

What are the benefits of doing it earlier? Why fix a bitch at 5.5 months instead of at a year?

Fences, electric shock therapy, surgery...brilliant ways to address symptoms instead of the actual problem. Genius.

if it's in a shelter or rescue so it's adopted out fully vetted and then you don't have to worry about spay/neuter clauses in the adoption contract which are hard to uphold in the law.

Some vets it's cheaper to spay at a younger age since there's less risk of complication and it's 'easier to get in' (most places the neuter is the same price no matter the age since it's an easier, less-invasive process). Younger animals recover faster (and sometimes the surgery is easier, it is not any more difficult).

Some breeds develop and mature at different rates. A Yorkie and a Newfie are going to grow/mature on completely different schedules. A yorkie you can spay sooner.

Until only recently have there been studies done that document the chance of cancer. Before they thought doing it earlier was more preventative. Now some studies show to wait until after the first heat, but before the 2nd or 3rd (the more times the bitch has been in heat the higher chance for caner).

AVMA now supports early spay/neuter (8-16 weeks of age) to try to help with overpopulation (note- AVMA only supports this in certain situations- rescue/ shelters, not private homes and if possible put it off for longer).

So basically, if possible wait to spay/neuter at a later age and you'll reduce the risk for growth problems (including dysplasia), reduce the risk for bone and other cancers, and other things.

Now that I've rambled... to answer your question- the benefit for the private owner- none. To the shelter/rescue there are some due to helping decrease the population. If possible you should put it off (i'm not a vet, but i'd say wait to about 1 yr of age. if you know they are full-grown, mature, etc. then possibly do it a bit earlier around 7-8months, but if not wait until 1 yr or around that depending on the breed).

Nice comment Don.
That's right- work on the problem- work with the dog. It's young it needs things to do. It can be super easy stuff such as interactive rewarding toys (a treat ball that they play with to get treats to fall out of).

I am curious as to how you know it's about to come into season.

Here's a few, you'll find more if you read through some of the links I posted.


This link goes on to a research paper giving clinical studies with comparisons between early and traditional neutering practices. Just scroll down a bit and you'll have lots of info, and even addresses Mere's concerns with regard to open plates.

Summary from the above link:


From another link I already posted


By the way, we're talking about a 5.5 month old dog which is a mid-sized terrier mix breed. Not a Great Dane, and not an 8-week old puppy. I am also leery about neutering very young puppies, but at 6 months, just before the first heat, I haven't yet read anything negative about neutering a mid-sized dog and there's a lot of positives to having the procedure done before rather than later.

Edit: Benefit to me as a private owner: no unwanted puppies, don't have to deal with my male going crazy while female in same household goes in heat, reduced chance of cancer and other health problems (and the costs involved).

This whole discussion is actually a moot point as the OP is not the owner of the dog. She is not going to neuter it, she is looking for a way to keep it in the yard for a week or two.

The easy (and cheap) answer- keep it on leash and go out with it.
It's still a pup and should still be supervised while outside.
Get a longer leash if you want to be able to just stand at the door and let it meander for 5-10 meters.

It sounds like you are having a bad day don riina. Read the thread. I'm not planning to give the pup shock therapy.

Of course, the next thing will be a long line so that she can go into the garden if it is not possible to take her out five times a day. What I was trying to solve was how to make the garden dog proof so that she could run around, chase a ball and work off some energy that way. The fencing will be done, but it doesn't look as though we can sort it in the very near future. It just would have been better for the dog. (no not electric shocks dr but more running around freely instead of on a lead).

She's actually a very nice dog, think she will train quite well, possibly even very very well. I made a mistake before, the terrier part is Jack Russel, not fox terrier.

Re how do I know she is about to come into season. Short answer is I don't for sure, but she is licking herself a lot, made me think and I asked the girls how old she is. It can anyway only be a matter of a few weeks or so. Six months is an approximate time, depending on the breed, but she does seem fairly mature (physically!).

Anyway folks, thanks very much for the interesting info. I will see what I can do to help when I get back.

I wouldn't put her on a leash and leave her outside alone.

If you want to let her run around and play why not have her on a dragline? just let her drag a leash around and since you're out playing with her if she gets into anything you can gently remove her from the situation and if you need to step her you can quickly stop on the dragline.

If she's almost 6 months she should've already been started on training and being worked with. So just have some fun and incorperate her learning into every day life- it's the easiest and most consistent way to train and then it's not training, but normal life for her and she's already learning the 'rules and expectations'.

I agree with mere that your sister-in-law should already have started with training. If the dog is almost half a year old and hasn´t been in a class that is actually a bit behind schedule...

So the situation is that a post-op woman will be living alone in a house with an energetic pup and an un-fenced yard. I wonder if she could talk to the neighbors in the area. If it is just for a week or two, there might be a nice retired person who would be willing to help out for the time -- or a stay-at-home mom who would be willing to take the morning shift or something.

With all this talk of neutering...SCNR (sorry, couldn't resist)...

Two ladies talking about their dogs. one tells the other that she has two dachshunds - a dog and a bitch.

"But what happens when the bitch is on heat?"

"Simple - I just put her upstairs."

"How's THAT supposed to stop the dog getting at her?"

"Equally simple - have you ever seen a dachshund trying to get upstairs with a hard-on?"

Precisely. This is what I have been trying to sort out. But now too late for any more. I shall tell my husband to go and take the dog out when he can - his brother is coming to stay with him for a week while I am away, so surely the two of them can manage two dogs (ours as well - very sedate but fit) - it just won't be lots of walks a day.

I think I have it as far that her daughter will buy a long extending leash, so that sister in law can stand in the garden and dog can run around/wee etc, and hopefully that daughter will also walk the dog from time to time.

She was trying to sort out dog training - the guy who does it (remember this is a small place) for some reason couldn't start it right now (or then when she asked about it). I don't actually know why not. But the pup does sit when she is told. I honestly think that she will be a very good dog to train - when she's stopped bouncing all over the place! I think the guy gave her (sister in law) some basics to concentrate on, but honestly there are too many children (grandchildren) around waving hands about at the moment. Pup needs some quiet time in my opinion. She looks to me as though she would make a good agility dog - it would give her something to think about, keep her busy. But yes, when they all finally get around to it.

Anyway, I have at least reminded them all to watch out in case she does come in heat, and have organised them to talk to the vet (who lives across the road from the other daughter). Lot of dodos - no-one had even thought about the possibility.

Thanks mere for advice. I will see what I can do about it when I come back. Have to be up at 4.30 in the morning, so time to sleep.

Have a good trip, spatown. In addition to the extendable leash, have your sister-in-law get a retrievable toy that she can throw and then pull back with a string/rope because Gina probably can´t fetch well yet. Don´t worry about her too much, she is a grown woman and isn´t completely alone. You´ve done what you can...