Why do Germans act insane on public transport?

I am completely lost for words when I have to put myself through travelling via bus, train or tram in Germany. It actually ruins my day. Why on earth don't people here stand up for decrepid wrinkly 90 year olds on public transport? Seriously, the amount of times when I've seen younger people suddenly turn to look out of the window when an old woman hobbles on, pretending they haven't seen anything. Some don't even have the decency to do that, they just sit there, shameless. One old guy was actually on crutches and was falling about all over the place and no-one gave up their seat. What the hell? I mean, what? Is this normal, or do I just happen to be around when this phenomena happens? Thing is, no-one stands up for me either and I'm very visibly eight months pregnant. My feet have increased two sizes. So when I see some woman get on a tram and deliberately sit on the outside seat so that no-one can sit next to them, leaving old women and disabled and pregnant people clattering around the aisle...it makes my blood quite rightfully boil. I've even been pushed out of the way by men on two occasions whilst trying to haul my fat belly onto a tram. Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, is it just not in the culture here to be considerate to people who are worse off? Or is it just a Leipzig thing? Usually I offer my seat if no-one else does, but if I don't have a seat either when an old person gets on, should I say something or do you think I will be greeted with abuse and spoil my day further?

Related topic: Seating priority on the U-Bahn

Maybe this is why. Angry old ladies
Take care,
space

Of course this happens only in Germany.

PS. Germans like to mind their own business. If you are fat and pregnant and need to sit down just ask anyone to give you the sit.

This is of course a broad generalization, and perhaps only my opinion, but it seems to me that Germans have a serious sense of entitlement. It starts young, in Kindergarten, where they are taught not to share. So when they are adults, they put their towels down, cut in line, and all the other annoying habits that you will read about on this forum, because the spot is THEIRS.

And to the pregnancy issues, well, it also seems to me that chivalry here is completely dead, so you can just forget about getting any consideration/ sympathy for the state you are in!

Being polite here does not work, so if you want something (e.g. a bus seat), you need to be pushy, like they are. When in Rome...

The pregnant thing happened to me while I was pregnant this past summer. Mostly it was older fat women who would run like I have never seen an middle aged fat women run before...all just to steal a seat before the pregnant woman did. The only people who gave me seats, or offered, were a woman my age or early twenties and an old woman...grey hair and all, offered me her seat. The younger guy next to her was oblivious to the world. I refused but when he got off I sat next to her. I did almost faint once and a man gave me his seat, but other than that they will not get up for a visibly pregnant woman, even in the middle of the summer! I also was ran into several times and my belly was pushed around. I started walking with my elbows out because I didnt want my belly getting hit.

Haha, thanks for that Space. I've yet to experience the angry old women. Perhaps it's paradoxical though, they are angry at having to stand up on buses and so act pissy, and others act pissy with them because they act pissy because...and so on. @ Krieg, funny how they like to mind their own business as you put it but have no problem with breathing down my cleavage, stepping on my toes or shoving their crotch in my face. Generally I respect the German tendency to be direct, unapologetic and honest about things and not waste any time. I think that aspect just takes some getting used to. But I just think public transport makes people here crazy in this weird, urgent way. How they scrabble to get on an empty tram...it's sometimes actually funny. I'm sure this kind of behaviour happens more in the bigger cities here, but still-I've not seen it anywhere else.

That drives me mad too but, being the perverse sort that I sometimes am, I deliberately choose those people to disturb - ask very nicely if the place beside them is free and then push past them (I've got big feet and am fairly clumsy so even trying to not step on them doesn't always work).

It's true! The one time I got offered a seat was on one very hot day this summer, and it was by a woman closer to my age. Call me traditional, but shame on those men!

CarlaG – stay here for a few decades and eat what they eat and you will feel, and thus behave, the same way – you are what you eat.

Stop whining and just ask anybody to give you his/her place, it works almost always. Normally Germans will your give you the place if you do not really look like you need it but they will do it if you ask for it. You are not the only pregnant woman in this country, do you know it?

Here it is expected that if you want something you will speak up. If you don't say anything how is the other person to know that you actually want the seat? I've offered my seat numerous times only to be told that it's more difficult for the person to get up from a seat than to remain standing.

That said, nothing wrong with offering your seat, it's better to err on the side of politeness in my opinion but be aware, and this applies across the board in Germany, if people want something from you, they won't hesitate to ask and neither should you.

What you perceive as rudeness is just a difference in culture, there are many things that Germans find "rude" about the people when they visit America which aren't rude to us, they're just different.

Krieg, you seem to like trying to start an argument with me-I won't respond to such a pointless statement as 'you're not the only pregnant woman...' it would be a waste of my time. My main issue was with not letting older people sit down. But I would like to see you carry around 3000g of baby then try to stumble across a noisy tram having to ask people to stand up for you, then tell me to stop whining. Sorry but I'm not accustomed to that kind of exchange. There's no need to get so childish and horrible.

I call people on it all the time and get some majorly "how dare you" stares. I especially hate the people who bury their noses in a book and act like the world around them doesn't exist. Take their ready made excuse away from them and watch them panic!

It is the same with handicapped parking spaces. I love the looks when I ask them are the mentally deficient or just plain self absorbed?

Deja Vu: Seat priority for pregnant women on the U-Bahn, Nobody offers a seat, just me or is this rude?

Poor you, you are pregnant.

We have a 1 month old daughter and we do not have a car. Do you know what my wife did instead of whining? She ask people to give her the place when she wanted to sit down. And guess what ... It worked always.

If you do not want to adapt to this country it is your own problem. You will continue standing.

True, of course. I find something strange about most cultures, particularly the UK where I come from! I guess it just takes time to try and integrate oneself into the very direct way of doing things here. I just don't see much reason why, like you say, people can't just err on the side of politeness. Even if it is more difficult for the person, it makes a difference to be asked. Every time. So ist das Leben. I often wonder if Germans and/or other Europeans find most British people unbearably pretentious, transparent or fussy or find the things we say really weird. Anyone?

Perhaps they are erring on the side of politeness by not intruding on you and assuming that you are handicapped in some way. Their politeness is to wait until you ask them for their seat. Just a thought. Your personal perception of what is polite doesn't necessarily transcend all borders.

Carla, it's all been said, done and dusted before. Yes, you have to speak up. Yes, they have to get up. If someone pushes you, say something along the line of "Passen Sie bitte etwas auf". Chances are once the Germans realize that someone pushed a pregnant woman said pusher will be hounded off the bus/streetcar/whatever as all the Germans need to develop mob mentality is a leader.
Or be more aggressive and say, "Entschuldigung, dass mein Bauch und ich Ihnen im Weg sind". At least is reduces your blood-pressue.

You haven't been called an Island Monkey yet then CarlaG?

I doubt it. More likely selfish. I don´t believe Germans are that different from "us" and such a thing can be excused by cultural difference. I am always concerned that the elderly get a seat, particularly on the lurching buses. It is usually gratefully received when offered. I can´t believe it when they get on and helplessly look around for a seat and no one moves.

Maybe this is because I am a women with frail grandparents. Maybe I am oversensitive, but I would rather be that than lose all human feeling.

I squeesed into a window seat next to someone a couple of months ago, and upon realising that it was a rather tight fit asked the gentleman next to me to kindly move over a tadge. He replied "No, If you dont like it sit somewhere else." When I got out I stamped on his foot. Well if he didnt like it he should have put them somewhere else eh?

Germans in public are the pits. They quite immaturely always proudly go on about "beng impolite it is just a cultural thing and here you have to be direct blah blahblah." That is until you are then direkt and impolite with them. Funny enough, they seem then to insist on a standard of politness and manners more accustomed to a civilised country. It's one of the biggest paradoxes in this country.

In contrast, a while ago when I had sprained my ankle and was on crutches I was struggling a bit with my groceries on the bus and a German woman offered to get off at my stop with me and help carry my groceries home. She genuinely meant it too, which is nice, here you know when a person offers help it's sincere whereas back home such offers can often be disingenious.

You know what, you have a real problem. Let me raise an issue which I have a right to raise and stop being such a horrid, argumentative person. Sorry but I think it's a damn disgrace that old people get left standing. They are old, they are German, do you think they walk around trams asking for a seat? There are things I hate about the UK too, and the US and France and Ireland and GUESS WHAT? I TALK ABOUT THEM. Because I want to and I can and sometimes it's nice to vent your troubles and hear from other people and have them tell me NICELY about how they dealt with the situation. It's called freedom of expression. Now if I came in here and started complaining about how shit Germany was is general and how they are all nazis, I could understand your bitterness, but this would not happen because I moved here due to LIKING Germany. You know, if you'd just offered me your advice nicely and politely, I would have thanked you. I am human and I try to be nice to other people and what I am doing here is complaining a little sure, but communicating with others and ultimately getting advice and why should you try to make me feel bad about that?

P.S I am aware that being pregnant is not a disability since I worked very hard for most of it, but keeping balance on a tram with very sore feet is a difficult thing. Nevertheless, I have seen how mean you are to some people on here and will try not to let you ruin my day.

In defense of the people of Munich, what I have also noticed is fantastic is people offering to carry strollers up and down u-bahn stairs when mothers are on their own- this is never refused!

Not an issue for me any longer, however I always notice when other people do it and send a silent cheer.

In contrast when my wife was pergnant it was a TURKISH teenager who helped her get off the tram. (Who probably got deported for being nice)

ER what are you trying to prove? It is common knowledge that German manners on public transport are the pits. And after living here 15 years I still find myself amazed by it all, and physicaly lifting alighting passengers out of my way as I get off. Yep you may find the odd one who was bought up decently. But it's the exception as opposed to the rule. Where as in most countries it's the other way around. I blame the parents though. I've seen them ask their four year olds if they wanted to give up their seat for an old lady, and then accept the negative answer, not get up themselves, and then let the old dear wobble around like a drunken jelly.

Thanks. This is the kind of polite and interesting advice I appreciate. One can really learn about different cultures, and best of all, not be abused for expressing oneself.

I think Krieg is also entitled to that, no?

I don't agree Gideon, I don't think Germans are any ruder on public transportation than anyone else. Sorry, my experience is just different than yours.

I must share my best story involving that. I get on at Pasing and its constantly full of people shlepping heavy bags and prams. I make a point of help those who are struggeling. It's a simple act of kindness which helps people along. Once on seeing some poor mother stuck and pausing with her pram in the middle of the stairs, an Italian and myself instictivly quicly jumped to help and after one second of hand-communication between ourselfs carried the buggy down together. Only to find out that she wanted to go up... I guess we should have asked her first ;-)

Er, I cant help what you think. It's not experience, its the colour of the tint of your glasses which is different.

You know what? They are Germans and they know better than you how things work in Germany. If they need to sit and the train is full they will ask someone. As an exercise (after your pregnancy) try to give your place to any old person and you will notice that most of them will politely reject it.


Free Speech does not exist. But if it existed, I would have as well my right to say whatever I want. See? You are against my freedom.


Politeness is subjective. You have a big problem understanding this. This whole thread is a proof.


Damn it you do not get it. ASK SOMEBODY TO GIVE YOU THE PLACE AND YOU WILL SIT DOWN. END OF YOUR PROBLEM.

PS. I am not mean. I am direct.

Sure. It's just that most of us can exert it in a mature way without needing to be hurtful and sarcastic and instead try to proffer some helpful advice or experiences.

I can't think of anything better to say here than boo-hoo. Perhaps I shouldn't say anything at all then. Oh well.

I do not think Krieg was being hurtful or sarcastic. He wa, as he said in his own words, being "direct".

I think it has been said several times to you now. Ask and you wil receive!

Funnily enough I have never seen on old person on a bus ask for a seat...assuming they are Germans. But they still take it when offered- so I am not sure what is the logic of that? I regularly take the number 58 bus to and from the Viktualenmarkt.

As usual the aggressiveness directness and attitudes of certain people on this forum flabbergasts amuses me. Boo hoo.

There, that's more like it.

Well i will share a good experience in Germany not with the tram though. A few have already heard this story so bear with me. The supporters were holding a TT Newcomers breakfast at the Twisted Bavarian a few years back. I showed up at noon and of course the doors are locked surprise surprise (j/K Tex Tornado) anyway a german walking by came up to me and strted talking to me in german. I did not quite understand what he was saying but figured he needed change for the 2 Euro coin he showed me so I tried to give him change for it but he was like "no no no für Sie essen". He thought I was homeless and wanted to make sure I got something to eat.

Well anyway back to the public transport thing. Am I the only one that has rode in the US. Jesus in Dallas you can get shot. I think germany is not as bad as the US, and I proudly ride in the US.

I've lived here too long and not used much public transport in other countries to really be able to judge whether Germans are WORSE than other nationalities. I do feel they generally have *bad* manners when it comes to things like giving up their seat for people who need it more, waiting for people to get off before trying to force their way into/onto the U-bahn, tram, bus, queuing, holding doors for the next person, opening a door and allowing women/old/frail people through first etc. is It could just be a general trend in all societies today that people don't pay attention to manners as they used to. I'm not *that* old but my parents did drum things like manners into me, more so than a lot of other people my age, though I do catch myself sometimes not holding up to these standards.

Point taken on the free speech thing, Krieg. It's just that sarcasm pads out a point in the same way that Brits pad out their sentences with all sorts of little niceties and is kind of uneccesary. But it's not true about old people not taking seats when offered, I've offered many times and yes, they are usually gratefully accepted. I disagree, you are both direct AND mean. I can really use your advice but it was kind of tainted by how you put it. Anyhoo...

I always seem to be the first one to offer my seat to the elderly or disabled and 99.5 percent of the time my offer is accepted.

CarlaG - have a fake cheap pearl necklace and while you are travelling standing and seatless on some smelly pubic transport break it so all the pearls fall everywhere. At the same time shout "Oh no!!! my valuable pearls" - in the ensuing mayhem just select your seat of choice. Of course if you notice any unattended bags make a grab inside them for any wallets etc..

In sheep years? ;-)

Maybe this is why he's so agg direct?

Strangely enough, my advice and that from Krieg are pretty much identical. And claiming that Germans show a mob mentality would probably not be regarded as polite on a German forum. Interesting, I grant you.

I can agree with him Kay. Jesus those things are like SUVs of strollers. I have actually seen three mothers take up a room meant to seat 20 at a coffee shop. At the time it was the only nonsmoking room in the place.

Just to make it clear, that comment was sarcastic and a reply to the guy that insists the metro in NYC is safer than in Berlin.

Don't mind Krieg, his homelands main exports are cocaine and coffee - it is only understandable that he be a little excitable.

And both are high quality.

Haha, good one, I'll definitely give it a go

Tell me about it, I didn't sleep for a week after my trip to cartagena.

Hell do you know what, I just like people being nice to each other. Call me a hippy or naive or give me abuse or what you will.