Cancellation of an Elixia gym contract

Because I was to move to Stuttgart, I gave Elixia my Kündigung in July this year. I was told that as proof they also needed some letter to explain that I was moving away and wouldn't have anymore access to Elixia gyms. I gave them a copy of my work contract and explained to them that even though the company is based in Munich, my work will be in Stuttgart. I showed this to them, everything seemed okay, so the Kündigung was stamped and signed.

Then I checked my bank account and noticed that Elixia hadn't stopped my membership and had actually taken October and November payments. Naturally I want this back, so after calling them they told me they need confirmation that I had actually moved to Stuttgart(?!) (as if the other things I told them weren't enough). So I faxed them my Anmeldebescheinigung. Then they told me that because they received this in November they could not give me a refund. On my Kündigung there is both the date when this was stamped and also a signature.

Has anyone had any similar issues with them similar to this?

Go there directly (or phone if that's not possible), show them the paperwork, and tell them you will take necessary steps (with a lawyer) to get your money back. Be completely confident in what you say and really stick it too them. They will give you the money back; it costs less than going to court with you and losing (you have the stamp and paperwork from the kündigung). My friend (german) went through this before here but he never actually got a kündigung from them so he couldn't prove the case. If you are sure that they said it was okay and stamped it, then they cannot keep taking money from you. I've used the lawyer bluff two times now in serious situations and they take you very seriously.

Thanks sushified, and yeah you're right. They actually wrote to me to say that (in German) as a gesture of good will they'll stop my payments end of November and instead of the end of next month (because it's one month notice they require). Punks.

Man I wouldn't let them write you off like that. Go and demand your money back. They gave you the kündigung! They can't take money from you! Stick it to them! They deserve it. I wouldn't take this sitting down.

Don't worry, I've had enough of people in Germany trying to pull a fast one, so a much stronger letter will be faxed to them tomorrow.

Just have your bank cancel the transfer - you can do this for any auto transfer for a time period of a couple months. then let them fight you to get it back. The bank will pull the money BACK into your account from Elixia.

the time period for getting your bank to return a Lastschrift withdrawal is 42 days. After this time you have accepted everything that has been booked and the reason that banks, well most of them, post your statements (and charge handsomely for doing so) to you if you have not collected them online or otherwise for a period of 6 weeks

A strong letter? I know you're in stuttgart but I would keep calling and calling them (literally constantly) until someone gives you the money back. There really isn't any 'taking the high road' with bastards like this. They take money from people and try to be 'polite' and say they will out of 'good will' give you some money back. What good will? It wasn't their money to begin with!!! I wish I could call there for you. I love dealing with german companies like this. Media Markt tried to pull a fast one on me again last week and I blew up at them in the store and they gave me my money just so I would stop yelling (other customers were staring). Some people will tell you that this is not the way to do things. But there is no OTHER way to do things here. No one responds to strong letters.

Fuckinghell, well I was going to go in this weekend too and let them know I want my money back, but you seem like a bit of a pitbull, so if you want to then you can do this on my behalf. Seems like you like this kind of thing.

Wow I would love too. I dont live in the city though. I'm still living in the middle of nowhere (20kms from Erding). It would so cool to go in with you and act like Im your lawyer. Done that one before too. I got over 500 euros back from my old job when they tried to cheat me out of a vacation payout. A friend went back in with me to the office and we never actually said that she was or wasn't a lawyer, they just assumed. She shot out a bunch of jabber about rights. They started freaking out and asked me if they could just transfer me the money and not have any more trouble.

The thing you have to remember is that when you know that you are in the right (having the kündigung stamped and dated) and have the proof (the kündigung) then you have very much power on your side. They can draw the process out, but if you go there and make a fuss in front of other customers or really get into it they have no choice but to make you happy. The most important thing here is money. Money is their power and their weakness. They consider a fight with you only a loss of money (other customers or people see the fight, like me media markt, and a court case would only end up with you winning and them paying the costs). For a small matter like this, the cost of giving you the money back is much less than any other things involved. I mean, they could go to court with you and maybe win, I dont know the whole story so I dont know their rules or the contract obligations you signed, but the stress and work (work costs more money) involved is once again, for something like this, not worth it.

So go raise a fuss!

kent, if you have moved to Stuttgart you might want to change your location here. Looks bad to still have Berg am Laim as your location when you're trying to prove a case.

The policy at Elixia is really stupid and the company are really starting to seem like a bunch of f*cking thieves.

After speaking to an employee of Elixia at the Berlin head office, the girl there told me that they only received my Stuttgart Anmeldung in November, but I told her that I gave Elixia confirmation I was not going to be in Munich by using my work contract. Apparently it wasn't good enough (even though the Kündigung was stamped and signed) however when the Kündigung was signed I was told the converse. But apparently the sign/stamp was to say that the Kündigung was received (though I initially had to prove to Elixia I was leaving before I signed the Kündigung) and not that it was accepted.

Then she tells me that the Stuttgart Anmeldung was sent this month and that's why I was still paying. Noone told me that I had to send this too, but in any case I faxed it over as proof as to when I registered (which was 01.10.08). Her response was it was too late, but too late for what I don't know. But my Elixia payment was made on 02.10, the day after my registration, so it would be impossible for me to send them this in time in order to prevent any furture transactions (and bearing in mind, my original Kündiging was accepted and signed).

Just how many loops do you have to jump through to finish a contract with Elixia? Is there such a thing as consumer protection in Germany and a company to contact about this? They keep on contradicting themselves in order to not give the money back.

Inaccurate. There are two types of "Lastschrift" - "Lastschrifteinzugsverfahren" and "Lastschriftabbuhungsverfahren". The former permits the supplier (in this case the gym) to take money from your bank, the latter instructs your bank directly to give the supplier money on request. You can only reverse a "Lastschrifteinzugsverfahren" and in theory at any time. A "Lastschriftabbuhungsverfahren" cannot normally be reversed as the bank has correctly carried out your instructions, but some banks may attempt a reversal if they can be persuaded the money was taken incorrectly. In practice the banks have an agreement between themselves to permit reversals within 6 weeks of sending out the customer statement (not the date of deduction), but legally at least, this does not apply to the end customer.

An employee isn't a manager. After reading your statement (which was confusing to say the least) I can't conclude if the Kündigung was accepted or not. You're telling me that the stamp was not an acceptance for them, but a stamp that they recieved it. Did you read the kündigung? I thought you processed this in july or something? If they are still trying to take money, and not giving the money back, then I would consider consulting with a lawyer. From my own experience, for him to look at the paperwork and the previous contact can cost something like 50-100 euros. That's how much it is in Erding, anyway. A consultation in itself can help you to find out if there's a chance your claims entitle you to legal action/your money back. Im not sure how much money they owe you in total, but if it's a lot then it's worth finding out. If you win the case they would have to pay not only your legal fees, but the money they owe you and it causes them a load of stress.

Like you said, it seems you've also been screwed over here before. I've constantly had money taken from jobs, companies, stores, and I also had my camera (expensive one) taken by my ex au-pair family because I couldn't even understand what was going on. Horrible stuff to happen when you think you've come to a civilized, fair country. I've gotten more and more information about my rights, how to react, etc. People will try to run you through loop-holes, but if you can be confident in what has happened and defend yourself, there's no reason for you to get screwed over on this!

Sorry if it was confusing to read...

Yes the Kündigung was read over and discussed with someone at Elixia: Beide Seiten können den Vertrag zur vertraglich vorgesehenen Frist ohne Angabe von Gründen kündigung. Das Recht zur vorzeitigen Kündigung aus wichtigem Grund bleibt für beide Seiten und für alle Fälle unberührt. Alle Kündigung bedürfen der Schriftform. Even better than Schriftlichform, I went in to Elxia in person and made sure I got a Kündigung signed by them (it's actually one of their forms). Originally, they wouldn't accept my Kündigung without proof that I was leaving Munich (Kündigung aus wichtigem Grund zum 30.09.08 beantragt). When I brought in my contract, the company's location was stated as been in the area of Munich, but because I'm a Seniour Consultant for them, it stated in this work contract that this does not mean that my location would be in Munich (it mentioned Stuttgart as an example). This was shown in the contract and the Elixa employee understood this, and consequently stamped and signed the Kündigung.

Now recently, they're telling me that the Kündigung signature was only to say it was received by them (but it couldn't have been stamped without the proof of my move to Stuttgart).

Then they said that the proof was not good enough, so they wanted my Stuttgart Anmeldung as evidence (this was requested a few weeks ago). I registered on the 1st of October in Stuttgart.

Now they're saying it's too late for me to have a refund, because they only just received this, this month.

I told them, according to their current procedure, that would have meant it would have been almost impossible for me to send them a copy of the Stuttgart Anmeldung before my October payment was paid into their account on the 2nd (the next day) unless I ask Superman to send it to them in Berlin.

I first informed them in July, almost 2.5 monthhs before I wanted to end the contract.

I sent you a PM.

A week ago I went into Elixia with my girlfriend to speak to a lady there about my Kündigung. I showed her everything w.r.t. the stamped Kündigung I got in July, employer contract, and so on. She read Elixia's last letter that was sent to me from their head office in Berlin. She basically told my girlfriend and I that this letter was simply not right (actually she said it wouldn't hold legally, because I had done everything I could according to Elixia's rules), and the fault lies with Elixia. Basically, they should have accepted a letter from my employer as evidence, and not my contract. Also because I registered at another Elixia in Munich, I should have given my Kündigung in the other branch too. That doesn't seem entirely logical since it's the same company and actually seems like they're clutching at straws, but nevertheless she told me that both mistakes were Elixia's and not mine, because I was none the wiser and Elixia should have known the procedure.

She then wrote them an email and copied me into the email, also stating that I was not told of the necessity of also using the Stuttgart Anmeldung to Elixia as evidence of leaving Munich, then explaining that the mistake was Elixia's and not mine. Actually it would be almost impossible to send an Anmeldung in the beginning of October before Elixia took October's payment out anyway, as this payment was made on the 2nd of October (unlikely to get registered in Stuttgart, then send the Anmeldung across to the Berlin office, and for them to register and cancel my October payment with my bank, all of which on the 1st of October).

So this evening I just received a letter from Elixia saying that management have agreed not to give me my money back because they only received my Stuttgart Anmeldung in the middle of November. This contradicts what their colleague wrote to them and who actually agreed with me.

Any advice- time for the lawyers or shall I send them a warning letter?

FYI, they owe me about €156. It's not a lot, but I believe they should not have took that money from my account and believe this is yet another fucking case of Germans not having the ability to think 'fair play'.

Lawyer lawyer lawyer. You said you're insured, so use it.

I think the normal procedure is send them a warning letter first, which I'm in the middle of writing, and to give them a deadline to pay up 'or else'...

Not fully aware of how the Rechtschutzversicherung works here in Germany, but I just found out my excess charge is €150, and I'm claiming my 2 months payment back, which means I should get €8 after all costs. Hardly the case of the centuary, but still worth pursueing?!

Did you threaten them yet with a lawyer??? If you dont do it, you dont get anything back. If you do do it, at least you`ll get 8 euros back. Its better than nothing and you win the principle as well.

I would be more concerned about winning on principle, even if you don't get anything monetary for it. Then again, maybe that's just me, because I hate getting screwed over like that..

Yes I wrote in my letter to give back the money by Thursday or else I'll start with legal action, and all legal costs will be covered by them (provided I'm right, of course). It's a matter of principle too, I guess. They're management in Berlin seem so stupid, if a colleague writes to them explaining the situation and agreeing it was Elixia's mistake and then copies me in to the E-Mail. I wonder how often Elixia do this to their other (ex)-customers. My girlfriend, who's German, told me that they have quite a bad reputation anyway (not been German, I wouldn't know).

If they dont respond to the letter accordinaly then you should take legal action. You'll get plus 8€ and a lot of satisfaction for sticking up for yourself.

I just spoke to the Anwaltin. The conversation lasted about 10 minutes. Basically she told me that they should have refunded the money back, so she'll now write them a letter, though it's not over until that money (plus now excess charges, other legal costs) is in my account.

I get the impression Elixia do this on a regular basis, because they assume most people won't go through the trouble of going through a solicitor to sort it.

YAY!!! Sticking it up to the man. Sounds great! I hope it works out in your favor.