Sunday shopping in Germany

I had many German friends who when I suggested that stores should be open on Sunday, their response was, everytime...

"Well, it is not fair for people to have to work 7 days a week."

Ummm, OK... Ever heard of part time jobs? Or, taking off on a Tuesday or, Friday, a little creative squeduling? (heads explode)

Or is it that students at university really don't have to have part time jobs? I don't get it.

the "Well, it is not fair for people to have to work 7 days a week." is bollox of course, and the correct reply to that non-argument has already been posted on this thread: "in that case all bars, restaurants, trains, buses, taxi firms, television and radio stations, petrol stations, beer gardens, fairgrounds, cinemas, etc should be shut as well"

I have a really hard time believing that the people who gave the world the porsche 911 can be stupid enough to believe that if you open shops 24 hrs a day and/or 7 days a week that every shop assistant would actually be required to be present for the entire duration of weekly opening hours... so I put that sort of non-arguments down to stubbornness and refusal to consider that different may be better

and another thing that puzzles me: how come on a sunday at 9pm you can, if you were so inclined, buy a dildo or a porno video but not a pint of milk?? priorities??

that's not the point the germans are making at all. In Munich you can shop 12 hours a day 6 days a week, for one day in the week you are forced to something other than shopping. It took me a while to get used to it, but now I think it's a great idea. Sundays for me are spent doing something relaxing or enjoyable - if i've run out of something essential there are places around the city you can get basics from. The only thing I used to really miss were video rentals, but now they have the automated 24 hour places. I just got back from paris, on Sundays all shops are closed same as here - yet nobody moans about it, same in Vienna.
I really think calling germans "stupid" cos they don't want to spend their one relaxing day a week in a line at tenglemans is more than a bit silly.

Another non-argument. Even if the shops suddenly were allowed to stay open 24/7 why the Hell should that mean that you can't continue to make Sunday special ? No-one is holding a gun to your head and making you shop on a Sunday. For those who want to shop, then they have the flexibility to do it when they want/need to.

Ah, but you're missing the point here.

Nobody wants to FORCE the Germans to stand in a line at Tengelmanns on a Sunday. It's the attitude that because SOME people don't want to go shopping on Sundays, the rest of us are forced to sit at home with our non-existant families.

If no Germans really wanted to go shopping on Sundays, then why not relax the law and allow it? If nobody wants to shop then, the stores will realise very quickly and adjust their opening hours to remain closed on Sundays.

And I promise to quit my whinging...


So what? I went to the US earlier this year and there were people who seemed to enjoy shopping on Sundays. I also remember people in Australia quite liking Sunday trading...Come to think of it, even in India nobody complains about it...

I am not calling germans stupid "cos they don't want to spend their one relaxing day a week in a line at tenglemans"

I am calling them stupid because they won't let *me* do so. personally I could not give a flying fart about how germans spend their sunday. other than Tengelmann employees of course. they should come to work and allow me to to spend my one relaxing day a week in a line at tenglemans

this is the thread you told me about Hazza, SOS comes out with some amount of bollox!

If people want to shop on sunday, there will always be people willing to work. Hell, Tescos in the UK only shuts for a few hours a week now!!

If you want to go shopping on a Sunday, go to the airport! The EDEKA there is clean, bright, has fresh fruit and veg in good condition and the staff are friendly! Personly, I think they fly them in from somewhere else!

agree 100%!
there'll always be people willing to work Sundays and evenings. I raked it in as a student working weekends in a shop...got double time on a Sunday and time and a half on Saturdays.

and I love Sunday shopping in the UK, it can be a real family occasion!

The german economy couldnt handle shops being open on a sunday aswell. As much as i would like for them to be it wouldnt happen all over germany, munich on the other hand and places in germany whos economy is stable and people still go out and buy things maybe. But with germany struggling ever since losing control of it currency and joining the euro (another bad idea) it has been unable to keep its economy stable, if shops in the whole of germany had the choice of being open on a sunday i think many few would because the costs of doing so wouldnt be worth while.

In a nut shell - "Germany is going down the pan"

What??

How does that logic work? It would have the opposite effect. Jobs would be created and spending would increase. That's the sort of thing that kick-starts an economy...

If individual stores couldn't handle being open on Sundays, then nobody would be forcing them to do so...


OK, I can understand the first and the last part of this sentence. The middle part looks like you wrote it in German and then used Babbelfish to translate into English.

@hazza

I dont think you understand, shops have overheads to run, it costs them money to open they have to pay staff etc. With most of Germany suffering from low consumer spending opening shops an extra day isnt going to make people spend more!

if they dont have money to spend it, it doesnt matter how many days shops are open they cant spend money!

Normally the government would try and change this by lowering interest rates so people have more money because less is being taken from them,

but germany is now part of ths single currency so it has no control, that is why it is stupid for countries with a strong currency to join the euro, and now the countries that have and find them selves in a worse financial position than ever are regretting it!

But the working condition in UK are not as good as in Germany. Less vacation, more hours/week, ...

There are probably people who would like to work on Sunday but do all the people now wroking would like to see their working hours extended? Would you like that you boss decide to optimized the usage of the offices by making two shift morning 6h00 -> 14h00 and 14h00 -> 22h00. and make you work sometime morning, sometimes afternoon?
Note that you would no more problem to go shopping and you would use your sunday to adapt for the shift change

The fact that would, maybe, increase the number of worker does not mean that the one which are currently working are ready to let their advantages go.

absolutely. however, I would argue that *you* don't understand...

cost accounting 101: in a shop, where salaries are a direct function of hours the shop is open, salaries are not fixed costs, they are indirect variable costs

in fact, the biggest overhead a shop has is RENT !!

calculate along, if you please, the accounts of our simplified shop, before and after "lockerung des ladenschlussgesetzes"

BEFORE:
sales per day = 1000
cost of goods sold per day = 500
days per week = 6
hours worked per day = 12
hourly wage = 10
weekly rent = 1000

--> revenue = 6000
--> COGS = (3000)
--> salaries = (720)
--> rent = (1000)

--> EBITDA = 1280

AFTER:
sales per day = 1000
cost of goods sold per day = 500
days per week = 7
hours worked per day = 12
hourly wage = 10
bonus for sunday work: 50%
weekly rent = 1000

--> revenue = 7000
--> COGS = (3500)
--> salaries = (900)
--> rent = (1000)

--> EBITDA = 1600

additional salaries paid: 180. additional EBITDA: 320

I heard that Ikea is now open on a Sunday but no cashiers are on. so you can look but not buy! Upholding old German moral's.

I think it is really stupid not to have some shops open on a Sunday and this thing of not allowing people to wash their cars or do the hovering on a Sunday is just madness. My ex got a visit from the Police for washing his car on a Sunday in Stuttgart. The reason we were doing it on a Sunday was cause we were too busy shopping on the Saturday (most of the time was spent queuing).
Why not open them on Sunday?

I hover (sic) on Sundays.

I think the car washing thing is more that you can't do it anywhere apart from designated places, for environmental reasons. I also think you should be able to wash at the automatic places on Sundays though

...and when I'm feeling really rebellious I hang the washing outside - even on sundays

Hmmmm, I don't like the idea of paying over €8 each way and sitting on a S-Bahn for nearly an hour each way. Not the most convenient for a sunday shop

We arent allowed to hang the washing outside on Sundays? Whats next- no talking on Sundays except for prayer? What kind of silly Puritan law is this?

@Macca


If a shop owner thinks it won't be worth their while opening on a Sunday, then they won't. But why prevent any business from operating if they think it will benefit them? I'm dead against FORCING businesses to open 7 days a week, but I am all for ALLOWING it.

Also, Jordigo is correct. In my business, for example, salaries account for about 2/3 the cost of the rent.

The only way my business will lose money on any given day is if the revenue is less than salaries for that day (+ a very small amount in electricity). This happens very rarely for me. But even if we only broke even, one can argue that staying open would still be worthwhile in the greater scheme of things - people are working and getting paid, taxes are being paid on purchases, etc.

Obviously, if you look around, you will notice quite a number of restaurants and bars have a 'Ruhetag'. Those businesses obviously feel that there is one (or more) days when opening is not worthwhile for them so they don't...simple.

...And don't tell me I don't understand. I actually run a small business and have some experience in this area. Please tell me what makes you the expert on this.

Surely it's up to the germans if they have sunday opening and not the meddlesome ausländer. Since i've started trawling these boards i can't help but notice an awful lot of the topics seem to be highly critical of the way in which the German people live and run their own society. Whether it be criticism of the limits and expectations of german law, social attitudes, prams on the U bahn, tax, food ( not enough 'home country' products on the shelves) or just general uppityness that Germany isn't the same 'as we do it at home'. I must admit it took me a couple of years to adapt to the differences here, but that's exactly what we as ausländerin(nen) should be prepared for, after all guys this is another country, it isn't home. Heaven forbid that everywhere became anonymous through sameness. So i have to say, so what if there is no consumer therapy available on a sunday here. Enjoy the experience of living amongst another people without comparison to what we already know and if you can't (or won't) do that, well, you can always go home and get what you need there eh?.. apologies for sounding churlish but it just gets my goat sometimes.

Oh right. Just because we live here and work and pay tax doesn't give us the right to complain about anything. I live here and have done so for the last 4 years and for about 10 years of my total life. This is the society I live in and am a part of - hence it is as much my society and I make up a part of it like any German person.


If you agree with everything then good for you. Perhaps you could actually state an opposing view and tell us why you're so fond of the things that people complain about and defend a position rather than telling us that we should just 'accept things'. That would actually add something to a discussion...

I do enjoy the experience of living here. Doesn't mean I can't complain about some things. I mean we all complain about things at home too and nobody tells you to shut up and accept it there, do they?


What gets my goat is people telling me to go home if I complain about one or other aspect of life here. I'm happy for you that you think you live in the 'perfect society'

I had to work this morning (on call) and I noticed a few things relevant to this thread. I was up early and immediately noticed how quiet everything was. This ONLY happens on Sundays or holidays. On my drive to work I noticed how empty the roads were, and how the traffic lights were not even turned on, it was a joy to drive. Again, this only happens on Sundays or holidays. Finding a parking place was easy for once, there was even an antique market going on...My point is that I find these occurences a nice change from the grind of the week. I suspect that if we made Sunday more normal, then these last vestiges of a "special" day would dissappear and I would consider that a shame. I realize not everyone agrees, but that´s how I feel. Sunday´s are the one day where the majority of people can and do relax (for clarification, I don´t work every Sunday, and even when I do, it´s an accelerated schedule where we do only what´s necessary i.e. checking temps, fermentations, etc.)

@Lupo...is making beer really "work?"

(Still got your stuff BTW...)

@Lupo

I can understand your point of view, and agree there are (what I consider minor) negatives to Sunday trading.

However, I think that the positives of Sunday trading far outweigh the negatives. You probably don't and so we'll end up disagreeing here.

so you liked that?

does that mean you approve of sunday trading?

good man!

From 'Deutsch in London' forum: "Was gefällt Dir am Besten am Leben hier in England - Top 3"

Link http://www.deutsche-in-london.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5209

Try and find one that doesn't mention the Öffnungszeiten

mmm - but most of them are complaining about the fact that most shops other than supermarkets shut at 5.30 or 6pm already
i think time's have changed here, and we actually have better opening times than in the UK these days
with the exception of Sunday, obv.

Just a holdover from the reign of terror of the Catholics. Close the shops on Sundays to get the suckers into church to put their money in the collection baskets and not spend it in the stores.

Allow the shops to open on Sunday!

1) less crowded shopping Saturdays
2) more part time jobs for people
3) more cash circulating = improved economy
4) increased foot traffic in shopping areas helps other fringe businesses

C'mon!

@Topsy

In fairness I can't think of many shops in London that shut at 5:30/6.

Electrical stores remain open usually until 8pm, supermarkets we know and most clothes shops do as well. Record shops are usually open late as well. In fact I can't think of any off the top of my head although there probably are a few.

And at least the banks don't close during the only time period you can get there - closed at lunch time and at 5:30 or if you are lucky 6:30.

well, it's a while since i lived in london, but one of the peeps on that site was talking about hackney, and there apparently they do...
probably not in the center of london, admittedly, but if you go a bit further out then they won't be open all hours
they flippin well certainly are not up north in yorkshire, anyroad

hard as it is to believe, there is actually life (and shops) outside London too. Plenty of places close by 6

There are some small shops that close at 5:30 in Hackney but the whole place definitely doesn't shut down. If people want to buy really bizarre things they may have trouble but apart from that it's mainly ok.

Also if you want to buy things from 20 different shops like you are forced to in Germany it may be a bit more tricky.

Plus there are plenty of shopping centres nearby that are not too difficult to get to.

Lived twice in zone 3 in London which is further out than Hackney and never had any problems buying anything up until 8pm.

Can't really comment for outside of London though.

@BTR

Never realised there was life outside London so I guess that's why I live in Munich. Also the original point was made about a website called Deutsche in London so I assumed they were talking about London.

there are plenty of places that are open quite late as well. In the place I have been in recent years (Cardiff, Birmingham, Solihull, Coventry, Portsmouth, Southhampton, Brighton) there were shops and shopping centres open to at least 8pm, some till 10pm and all with sunday opening.

It may be more of a problem out in the boon-docks to find shops open till 8pm but then exactly the same can be said here in Germany. In smaller towns and villages you seldom find shops open till 8pm.

The other side of the coin:
http://www.deutsche-in-london.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5218
"Was gefaellt dir am wenigsten hier in England"

It seems it's the bread, the food and the politeness is what the germans don't like about Britain. Funny that.

its a primitive form, but can just about be classified as life

*shakes head in disbelief*

BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Okt 31, 2005 12:24 Titel: Antworten mit Zitat
Die Saufkultur[quote]

The food I would agree with - but not if my point of comparison was such 'delicacies' as plainly cooked knuckles of pork. By politeness, I assume that its the mere existence of it that they don't like

If I were a German living in London, I think what I'd miss most is people that don't automatically dislike Germans.

I'd still much rather go out for a meal in Blighty than in Germany.

agree with topsy, i read the DIL site every week, and they always whinge about british sausages. like germany has the best tasting ones? and british ale, no you cant serve it cold, and our beloved bread.

They are right about the bread

and german bread is better? if i want to eat dried recycled hazelnut mdf, i'll order it ;-)

I don't understand what the issue is with German bread? Especially compared to the five trillion varieties of sandwich bread (WTF?!) you get in supermarkets in the UK.

German bread or Stein Brot as I call call it should not be knocked. Should war ever break out and there is no ammo then you can always use the bread. Also makes excellent bricks for rebuilding any houses that get destroyed should the aforementioned war ever happen.

And there really is nothing better than going to a bakery in the evening and buying several white rolls only to find they were baked at 6am and have been sitting unwrapped in direct sunlight all day with flies crawling all over them.

And they are very good at making white sandwich bread that comes pre-stale as well.

I do like the Brez'n though.

i miss that though. you cant make a good sandwich without a good bread. but lets not talk about german sandwiches...

[img]http://jodelibakery.netfirms.com/bread/sandwish%20loaf%20(sponge)/sandwich%20loaf%20(sponge)%20026.jpg[/img]

You mean this shit? OK, yeah, once in a while...

Nah Jules, that's the cheap rubbish that they probably sell in Aldi. What you need is Kingsmill - nothing better for a good sandwich.

The only difference between kingsmill and the supermarket own brands is the price and the pretty wrapper.
And Jules in answer to your question it's the sudden availability of bread that actually has taste and texture. It's to much of a shock for some Brits.
I wonder if some of them haven't got false teeth as some people seem to have a real issue with any bread that doesn't disintegrate in your mouth like a soggy sponge.

@nmh

If you can honestly tell me there is no difference between Kinsgmill Gold and Aldi pikey bread then I suggest it's you that has no idea what you are talking about.

Yes they are both soft white sandwich bread but there is one hell of a difference in quality between the two. Like comparing Augustiner and Fosters as they are both lagers. Then again perhaps I'm wrong there and they Fosters and Augusiner taste exactly the same.

So yep, good on you if you want to eat a sandwich made with heavy dry stonelike bread that completely overpowers the taste of what is in the sandwich. Personally I prefer to taste what's in the sandwich as well.

Each to their own.

Oh I don't disagree that there is a difference.
Kingsmill = pedigree persian poo
Aldi = mixed breed moggy from the old cats home poo
Still both shit though