Sunday shopping in Germany

Good lord man! Are you suggesting that flexible opening hours would aid the economy?!?! That stinks of free-market capitalist propoganda to me. Bell the cat is going to throw a spazzy fit if he reads that.
We must all know by now that we are but brainless morans, and must let the German government make all our decisions for us; has living here taught you nothing??!?! The real solution to the problem is to raise taxes for the rich people. No idea how that would help to be honest, but it is the standard socialist solution for fucking everything.

After all it's worked so well in the UK hasn't it?

I have my doubts that Sunday shopping would help the economy, not even large retailers or department stores. In Hesse, any restrictions on workday shopping hours were lifted, but even shops in central Frankfurt close at 10 pm the latest. A shop like H&M in the pedestrian zone Zeil, one of Germany's shopping areas with the highest number of shoppers, closes at 8 pm. So apparently margins are so tight that it doesn't pay to keep shops open longer with a few 400 Euro salary vendors. There's the saying "you can only spend each Euro once".

lol. so true

When I first came to Germany the shops closed at 12 on Saturday.

...and they still do outside the main cities. Proponents of a further relaxation in trading hours forget that 98% of stores aren't even open all the hours they are currently allowed to.

Which is precisely why it shouldn't be a problem to cut back the unnecessary regulation and let the shops open when their customers want them to. Unlike the current financial crisis, this is one situation where the market will provide the best answer.

Well I live close to the Dutch border and love giving the Dutch my hard earned money. The towns there are all open one Sunday in the month and some places (like the Roermond shopping outlet) are open every Sunday. So if the German economy doesn't want my cash on a Sunday, the Dutch can have it.

Some of us like to relax on a Saturday, have a sleep-in, watch the rugby, football or whatever and not have to rush off to the shops to get everything done with the millions of other people on a Saturday. And god forbid you have a wedding or some important event to attend on the Saturday...better plans waaaaay in advance how to get all the food etc. for the next week.

To be fair the rules in Germany have got better, but still just the Sunday issue.

Our videostore used to be open on a Sunday then the church got involved and had them closed down on Sunday....so Sunday football is not keeping people outta church??? Hypocrisy!!

And ironically most of the cars in Holland on a Sunday have German plates...but hey according to the German government the demand for Sunday shopping is not there :-)

RMA: My (original) point exactly. Thank you.

Goeters: The churches are basically forcing their morality down other peoples' throats, which pisses me off. If you don't want to go shopping on Sunday, don't. But that doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

As I said earlier, it's a no-brainer.

PS: Of course there's no demand for Sunday shopping in Germany - every bugger's going to Holland ;-))

Wanting to shop 24/7 is so yesterday, haven't you guys heard of the Church of Stop Shopping?

You missed my point. I have no doubt that millions of Germans will jump at the opportunity to spend their Sundays monging around a department store or supermarket. The reason that most stores aren't open all the hours they are entitled to is simply that they can't afford to; they are small stores or market stalls owned and run by one or two people. They are, for me, one of the main reasons for living here rather than in Clone Town UK or USA.

Sunday trading would force small stores to open on Sundays as well, resulting in extra costs for the same amount of income – extra costs they can barely afford. Alternatively, they may choose to actually take one day off each week and so, unable to afford to pay for extra staff, will lose yet more sales to the supermarkets and other national chains.

Sadly, I have no doubt that Germany, like the UK, will eventually become a clone of the USA and that we will then all be forced to drive to a big supermarket and do all our shopping there. If you're already doing this then I understand your confusion concerning Sunday closing, but for me Sunday trading would just be another nail in the coffin of choice and diversity.

There is no real life logic to that argument.

Or perhaps you could explain this then:

Pubs are allowed to open on Sundays - even in Germany, and in fact have some of the most unregulated opening hours of any business. Yet the vast majority of pubs are independently owned and run, and not a part of a large chain.

Conversely, supermarkets are almost all owned by chains (Tangelmann, Plus, Rewe, etc), even though they are not permitted to open on Sundays.

I'd say choice and diversity are exactly what is missing in this country.

Not to mention independently owned florist shops and bakeries who are also allowed limited Sunday opening, at least where I live.

Well I like things being closed on Sundays. Gives another reason to go out to the pubs. I hate these exception sundays, it only brings in the country folk as well as the tourist into the center of town. They act like they never seen a one way road or no parking sign before.

This is not true, in fact the truth is the exact opposite. At the moment, shops are paying most of the costs (electricity, rent etc) for a day they can't even trade. If the extra cost for staff is an issue for small businesses, then they could open on a Sunday (which would be the biggest or second biggest trading day of the week) and close on a Tuesday (traditionally the least profitable day of the week) and they would still be ahead.

Makes you wonder how all the little family owned 24/7 variety stores in North America manage to stay in business. Perhaps Germans and some other Europeans just aren't inherently capable of regulating their own lives, and need a Big Brother? Or else they haven't quite managed to completely get away from their feudal roots, and see government as a replacement for the Duke or King or Kaiser.

have they? I was under the impression they were all 7-Elevens these days.

Nope, all three small variety stores near my Mother in Toronto are small, no-name family places. She can walk to all three of them, but would have to drive a bit further to get to the 7-Eleven.

btw... 7-Eleven is a franchise organization, and not a centrally owned chain of stores. So these stores are also often family owned and operated.

Yeah, I'm sure that these sunday closing laws are also a result of years of church and government cooperation, whereas the US is a country setup specifically for religious freedom.

Small Town Boy:

You miss the point completely. (See my two earlier posts on letting the market decide.) Sunday trading means ALLOWING - not forcing - shops to open on Sundays. That means that if the owner didn't think he could make any money on a Sunday, then he wouldn't be forced to trade on that day.

And your last sentence is completely illogical. If it's all about choice, then Sunday trading is PROOF of choice and diversity, not the killer. It's BANNING Sunday trading that inhibits these two.

Geddit?

Bipa:

You're probably right to a large extent. My hypothesis is that absolutism never really died in ALL of continental Europe, not just Germany.

I fully understood your point; you misunderstood mine. I didn't mean that small stores would be legally enforced to open, but that they would feel forced to open in order to compete with the national chains, thus increasing their overheads yet further.

Sunday trading only provides choice concerning when you shop, not where you shop or what you can buy. Expats in Germany who do all their shopping in supermarkets seem to think that the selection in this country is poor, but there is in fact a wider choice of most products here than in Britain, and that's thanks to the small stores. Once they're gone, choice will be dramatically reduced – and Sunday trading will only hasten that process.

I think it should be their choice if they want to stay open. I grew up with very limited opening hours of stores and as the stores were given the freedom to be open more, they started to and nothing horrible happened. I like being able to shop when I want to shop, not be worried about what day it is and when the store is closing.

I'd imagine the answers to the poll depend largely on how long you have been here. I know I hated dead Sundays when I first arrived. I now love them and would not change them.

The one thing I would change though is the stupid way German Feiertage are so flaming inflexible. Rather than giving a Monday holiday when it falls on a weekend you get a lost holiday when it fals on a Sunday and a barren weekend of silence and starvation when it falls on a Saturday!

wow, I am so loving the style of this forum. It is sooooo way more advanced that facebook.

RMA you comments here are spot on...the market will determine the best answer

Rainy Days...your link was funny

come join my group on facebook as related to this subject : http://groups.to/Liberty

Well like just about all expats here and the vast majority of the natives I work during the week, and along with other activities and a long commute this means my weekday shopping is confined to a quick snatch-grab-pay trip to the supermarket sometime in their last hour of opening. The only time that I, and I'd assume the majority of working people, would really have to go and visit all the small shops - the butcher, baker, fruit stall etc. - would be on the weekends. Sunday trading would give these small stores freedom to open when people are relaxed and have time and more motivation to shop, while reducing hours or closing on times/days where trade is slow (probably mondays and tuesdays).

Also I don't buy the 'it encourages sports' argument. It actually makes it harder to schedule activities on the weekend as you have to try to schedule around the restricted shopping hours.

I think sundays should be banned. And ban churches as well while we are at it.