Winter and summer tyres - the legalities

OK, so since we have not had any snow for 3 or so weeks now, I am finally starting to believe that winter is over (my god it was long!). At the moment, my car has winter tyres on it, as I was told that if you had an accident in the snow and only had summer tyres, then the insurance company might not pay up. This makes sense.

My question is, is that also true for summer tyres in the summer, or can I just leave my winter tyres on? It seems like a lot of hassel to change them - have to carry 4 heavy wheels up the stairs from my basement and load them into my car boot. Quite an achievement for a mere girlie! Also, 2 of my summer tyres will need replacing, whereas my winter tyres were new this winter.

Also, how many kilometres (approximately) will winter tyres last for?

Thanks in advance.

Crosslink by admin: Winter tyres - where in Munich to get them changed

i would not drive with your winter tires in summer because they will have a tendency not to be as affective on hot roads. winter tires are ideal for winter because the profile helps to better grab the road and manouever on wet, mushy, snowy roads. is the profile wider, i am not sure. if the rubber warms up, then your tires lose their form, therefore you will have less control of your car. also, winter tires usually have a maximum recommended speed of say 190 kmh. (my bf's car 160!). they could last you up to 8 years.

there is no law saying you HAVE to use winter tires in winter. that depends on your insurance obviously. recommended is to use them between the O's: October and Ostern.

Hi,

Yep, same for winter tyres in summer, you are %age responsible for any accident.

Winter tyres are made from a softer compound rubber, and therefore, If they get warm enough in the winter it will be like driving with 4 jellies on your car.

The road noise with winter tyres is far greatet.
Feul economy is poorer.

On the lighter side, you will probably get laughed at too!

As Nike say... Just do it!

The midpoint between summer and winter tires is 8 degrees C. Just below this point winter tires are more effective on wet pavement, regardless if there is snow or not. Above this temperature, summer tires are better because they are made of a more dense rubber. In hot temperatures, your winter tires will slide more because they will wear out like an eraser. If you keep your winter tires this summer and drive more than 5000km, you are likely to need new winter tires next winter because you will eat the soft rubber away.

Now to answer your question. You do no need to take your winter tires away for insurance purposes. To confirm this with an example, rental car companies often keep the winter tires on their cars throughout the summer because it would be more expensive to fit them with summer ones and then sell off the cars. Last summer, I rented a high end mercedes, and the morons had it fitted with winter tires because the model was issued to sixt during the winter. After noticing this, I complained - they gave me 2 free days out of the 2 weeks (pretty good considering its Germany!) - and the fellow explained the whole thing to me.

That widely depends on your type of car and your driving habits, but they should be good for about 20,000 km. I wouldn't drive them for more than 3 seasons, b/c then the rubber gets hard. Also mind that you should have a minimum of 4mm profile on them, else they'll be ineffective on snow.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. Thought I could get away without the hassle of changing my tyres, but I guess not!

So, I´m not as practical as butterbean and wouldn´t know where to begin with cahanging my tyres myself. Roughly, how much will it cost me to get a garage to do it for me?

Also, as I need some new summer tyres, how much will I likely have to fork out for each one? Do garages stock them? I´ve seen tyres being sold in places like Walmart - am I supposed to buy them from there and take them to the garage with me for them to put them on the wheels?

l've just had mine done at reifen wagner which is on the georg-brauchle ring near the olympiapark
to change from my winter to summer ones was about 35 euros
they keep my old ones in storage and that is about 30 euros per 6 months (can't be bothered lugging them around)

you just take your car there, get a queue number, wait your turn and then its done in about 10 mins

get there early though since every man and his dog are changing their tyres at the moment

I am having my winter tyres on now for the fith season and I didn't change them in summer. I don't have summer tyres and I don't want to invest in summer tyres either as I think my car is falling apart very second anyway.
The profile is still good though... 190kmh... I'm dreamng about that speed with my Fiesta.

I'm starting to think that Canada must be the only country that has all-season tires.

I had all-season tyres on my Fiat, Goodyear Vector4 I think, they were sh*t! Too much of a compromise.

I suspect my wife could probably "nag" the tires off a wheel.

(might be I could bore the tires off a wheel I guess as well)

I agree with billybob about going to a garage and having your tires stored.

Beats changing them yourself. or causing accidents in the process.

(sorry, couldn't help it)

hi y'all,
driving to work this morning in the Moonbootmobile (Fiat 600) with my summer tyres was really ok...not slippy at all. my car has little thin wheels.
last winter I never had the winter tyres on either and it was ok too.
my driving teacher told me (ok it was 5 years ago) that in the city winter tyres aren't a necessity. am not planning to go on the motorway or anything.
just wondered what the law says about it all...a few of my German colleagues says it'snot against the law but if I had an accident then my insurance company would not necessarily pay out.

anyone know for sure?
J.

Thread merged by admin.

Your colleagues are correct.

yeah this is my understanding. insurance companies dont pay out if they can find an excuse, and this would be enough for them. i guess if there is snow or ice on the road, you have summer tyres, and you crash, they will not pay up.

i don't think it makes any odds in the city, to be honest. plus i think people reckon that slapping with winter tyres on excludes them from having to make any other concession to the road conditions!

yep you will pay the 50% of whatever damadge.

actualy yesterday was a day where you were told to drive only with winterreifen. but at the end of the day its your life! i disagree with latecomer, i was out and about in the car yeterday and juyt about everybody drives with much more care and consideration.

yup Gideon, that's my opinion too...I find people drive more carefully in the snow...and they pay more attention to 'Abstand' too.

stuff the winter tyres...am going home for 2 weeks on Thursday anyway.

do you think so guys? maybe when it is actually snowing. maybe i'm just making excuses to weasel out of getting winter tyres

The gent formerly known as Herr Indoors hired a transporter from Swing over the weekend.
No winter tyres on it and wasn't offered them either.
Absolute jokefest that was (thankfully he drove, coming from the Alps he's used to winter conditions but even he said it was bloody stupid, particluarly as those MB Sprinters have turbo engines).
Munich City Council also doesn't grit or clear as much as they used to in order to save money. You might be ok on a main road but as soon as you leave the main carriageway, it ain't pretty.

Winter tyres are things you don't need until you need them. And then boy do you need them. As Gideon says, it's your life.

But to be honest if I drove only in town then I'd think twice about getting them too. Just don't be tempted to go out on icy days.

You could get all-year tyres (which are more commonly sold in the North of Germany), they would be better than simple summer ones but still, I hope I don't get stuck behind you in a jam!

Just heard at work this morning that if you have an accident in snow and ice on summer tyres the insurance WILL NOT PAY !

This is not true.

There is no definite legal regulation for the use of winter tyres, and in the case of an accident it needs to be decided on a case by case basis (except of course in e.g. mountainous areas where road signs clearly state that winter tyres are mandatory). Otherwise, only if it can be proven that the accident would not have happened w/ winter tyres, a driver may be made liable for part of the damage, though typically not exceeding 20%.

Apart from the legal implications, using summer tyres in adverse conditions is plain antisocial.

based on other threads you seem perfectly capable of crashing your car even when you have the correct tyres on Moonboot It depends how 'summery' your summer tyres are perhaps. Mine are like slicks so the winter tyres do make some difference.

I only ever crashed once...and it was the bus driver's fault...oh yeah and that guy last week we brushed bumpers but that was his fault...

honest!

the profile on the tyres makes only a minimal difference.

Winter tyres are made from a softer compound so they can reach operating temperature more quickly. The softer compound helps them grip the road better. From about +7 degrees and below, winter tyres perform markedly better than summer tyres. There does NOT have to be snow on the ground to make winter tyres worth having. It was minus degrees virtually all week last week, and has been below the magic 7 degrees for a while.

I don't have winter tires on my Z4 and I do not drive it when the roads are wet(and if there's snow, obviously) in the winter. If it's wet or under 5 degrees then it's a chance. My insurance says that if I have an accident without winter tires, they will not pay. So, as the car is worth a couple of pennies, I just don't drive it. Besides, it's only fun in the summer!

What if you renting a car and they did not offer the winter tires or told you they would have a car with them in a week. I would think one would have a legal arguement against car rental if there was an accident. They basically gave you a car you shouldn't be driving in certian conditions

if your not going to drive it in winter why not only register it for the summer months? (i think its march to oktober) you can then use a more crashable (financialy) car for winter. that way you'll save pennies as your not paying tax and insurence on a moster car which is sat in the garage.

This is interesting because I have my regular day-to-day car... which I change the tyres from winter to summer and vice versa as required, but I have a classic on a 'H' (Historic) plate which, technically I can run all year round. I still have the 'allweather' tyres on it that I drove over from the UK with. It really isn't a snow car (or rain for that matter - it's Italian... if you can't hear it rusting at night, it's been stolen).

Where do I stand legally with this? Anybody know, or should I call my classic insurance compnay in Bremen?

All hire cars have all weather tyres. In cities in the south of Germany that generally get more snow such as munich and stuttgart, the rental companies do have cars with winter tyres but not all cars in the fleet will have them as it is not financially viable to change the tyres on all cars in the fleet.

You will only get a car with winter tyres if you specially book and pay extra for them. (or if you are lucky)

Insurance wise, the car hire company provide you with the car and the insurance. Car hire insurance works different to normal car insurance.
If you had an accident in winter in a hire car with all weather tyres, the responsibility would be no different to if you had the hire car with winter tyres.
As long as you were not breaking the law or terms and conditions of the hire contract (check your small print on the back of what you sign) the damage costs would be paid for by the car hire company. However, you will always have to pay the damage excess (selbstbeteiligung) which you do not get back and this averages in Germany at about 600 euro.

Gideon - it doesn't sit in the garage all winter - last winter I drove it a lot because the weather was fine(dry roads). This year, not so lucky so far. Anyway, you still have to insure it for fire/theft, etc which still costs money - and, when that sun pops out and the temps go up in March - I wanna put the top down and sun myself(that goes for November too!)

Interesting. I was renting a car last year and don't remeber sliding all over the road as I am now. I called Sixt who told me they would have a car within a week with winter tires but it would cost another 100 Euro per month. Yes, I rent a car on a monthly basis which is another story.

I know that a lot of Germans have Winter tyres but, is it the law that you must have these if you are resident, or can you use standard ones in the winter and drive slowly everywhere ?

We've just come back from a week in Munich and had a few hairy moments with our UK tyres.

Topic merged by admin.

there is already a long thread on this subject. try using the search function in red in the top right hand corner. it should answer all your questions.

think we've had this a couple of times. Its not enforced by law (as in say Sweden) but your insurance may not pay up if you don't have winter tyres on.

By the way, studded tyres aren't allowed in Germany

@ rose&pete:

scroll back through this thread, now that the mods have nicely merged it for you. if you have any unanswered questions i am sure there are enough opinions here to help.

And there's more winter tyre stuff Bringing a British car to Germany

just as a foot note, i was reading the new adac magazine last night and the new law in germany is as follows. if the streets ar covered in snow you need winter or all year tyres on. if you do not have them on you must leave your car where it is or pay a fine of 20 euros. if you are causing an obstruction it will be 40 euros. not alot of money you may say, but this does give the insurance companies a lot more clout in making sure the pay you nothing in the case of an accident (basicly you'll be driving the car illegaly and will be stumping up wonga for any damadges).

I.e you'd be driving uninsured?

exactly.

however, they law only applies when ice and snow directly affect the driving conditions. Winter tyres are essential on dry roads in minus conditions (as we have discussed endlessly on this thread) due to the rubber mixture they use. In fact, winter tyres perform bettter than summer tyres from +7 degress and below.

All-weather-tyres are shunned here as being a bad compromise. I must admit, I had all weathers on my car when i lived in switzerland and felt they performed fantastically.

I am coming to live in Ingolstadt and driving from UK this weekend in my UK registered car with all weather tyres. I'm a bit concerned about it with all the snow about, especially with the car being fairly full. But anyway I can report about their performance if I get there in one piece!

You'll be fine with all weathers - I have them and have had no problem with them this last week.

Much experience driving on the autobahn in a blizzard with a full car with no winter tires? Should be good fun. At least I dont think most of the drive will be snowy, just the last bits, once you get down south and inland. Good luck and be careful!

In fact actually, with the speeds people tend to drive in this type of weather you'd probably be allright on punctured tyres.

OK I have read the thread .. but still not answering my question .. yesterday BMW put on my winter tyres and it looks as though the weather will be pretty warm (over 15) for the next week or so. Already I have noticed black tyre marks on the road, so... is it dangerous to drive at the moment, or should I go and have the tyres changed back???... Help

You're fine with winter tyres, mind though that you watch the tyres' speed index (S=180kph, T=190kph, H=210kph, V=240kph). Also, in warm weather you'll have a bit more wear and not as good grip as with summer tyres, but keep that in mind and it's safe.

Of course you can drive! Winter tyres work better when its cold but they still work ok in warm weather. They might wear out quicker if you used them all year round, but in the short time before the bad weather comes it will make next to no difference. Most winter tyres are speed limited though, often to 180kph, so slow down a bit on the Mittellerring!

From a physics/engineering point of view there is probably not a critical temperature which is absolutely the time to change. Just gradual changes in efficiency.

If you're concerned, get them changed, then change them back every time the temperature fluctuates above or below whatever your trigger is. Alternativly, do what the rest of us do, crack open a beer and chill out. It's probably important if you drive at 250kmph, but for those of us who don't it's probably more concerned with annoying road noise and lower efficiency.

If the temperature was in the high 30's, I'd be more concerned - but I'm sure that in this case defensive driving is the way forward.