Mozart might be offensive to Islam

Full story from Bloomberg: Berlin Opera faulted for bowing to security concerns

And from BBC News: Beheaded prophet opera dropped

It's getting totally ridiculous now. Why is everybody tiptoeing around the Muslims?

...because they blow people up with bombs?

@OG: Hahahahahaha... great comment. Seriously.

Muslims don't Owain, madmen do.

The trouble is, the voice of reason and the opinions of the sane (which, by the way, is a much bigger majority than is perceived) is drowned out in the Islam world.

For the West, stereotyping is easy, all the more so when you have logic and the rational arguments of peace-loving muslims on one side and the much more graphic images created by the violence of extremists on the other. We all know which one is pumped more in the media. I am not necessarily blaming the media for what is happening, but using the media's power to convey a message, however skewed, is in the very nature of terrorism and that is mainly where it derives its power from.

Memo, agree with you almost completely - however take a look at the BBC link:


Now presumably this guy is a rational peace-loving Muslim , due to the position he holds - so why isn't he totally offended by this. If I was a rational Muslim (two things some claim I am neither of) surely I would be supporting Muslims putting on our own production of such a play - to put the two fingers up to the other crowd who claim to be the true representatives of Islam.

Catholics, Pagans and Buddha freaks aren't criticizing the opera. This just prooves that Muslims have some sort of inferiority compex or something. Ridiculous!

@parnell

This has more to do with the issue of depicting the prophet, which is a different topic, and one that we have discussed at length during the Muhammad caricature crisis (admins, crosslink?). Most of the muslims (excluding myself, mind you) would still be offended by any depiction of Mohammed, despite historic evidence of such depictions in the muslim world itself.

I think it is all a load of bollox, since the idea behind "forbidding images of the prophet" was simply to avoid worship to false gods and idols. This might have been a necessity in the beginning but now???

Edit: As I always say (or rather, quote), Islam has not had its Renaissance yet.

Where in the articles does it say that Muslims were criticizing the opera? This was a decision based on a security analysis. Even though no direct threat had been received, it was recognized that there are some nutters out there who may have taken violent action in protest, but there you go tarring all muslims with the same brush.

@ Memo
I think you're absolutely spot on there (on depiction of the Prophet) but think it is the same topic - I mean do rational people of any race/creed go out of their way to AVOID OFFENCE ? Rationally one would say yes - such as I knew enough about "The Passion" movie to know I'd be offended by it and kept away (because I consider pornographic violence offensive , not for any religious views)

I thought the reason given for avoidance of depiction of the Prophet was cos he was so beautiful - but you might know better there.

I don't know (or claim to know) enough about Islam to back up your remark about a renaissance - but it seems that way to a dumb Irish Catholic like me -I can understand Muslims non-acceptance of Christians forcing them to undergo such a renaissance - I still think it VERY tragic that rational Muslims like yourself are prevented from doing such a great service for your faithful.

It says the opera drew criticism in 2003 when it was performed -- whether by Muslims or PC-obsessed Germans is beside the point. Let the Opera go on!

Name me something, apart from the Koran, that ISN'T offensive to extreme Islamists.

Non pig-shaped cucumbers.

MAM, I would be more careful about my comments and avoid generalization if I were you. It is only the short and thin ones that are not offensive.

Yes from my extensive experience with converted council house cucumbers I find them to be tremendous. Most of my cucumbered friends are turnips. By the way I am not a bigot. Ask my real life friends if you don't believe me. They all say I'm marvellous. By the way I am not that kid in the movie "The Shining" with the psyochopathic imaginary friend. That is not me ,at all. You should know that. So there... RED RUM!

I mean tomatoes. Non pig or shellfish shaped tomatoes. <breaks into sweat> Nobody is upset by tomatoes... I think

Dan Quayle.

Black helicopters inbound on your position right now MAM.

And me... I hate tomatoes

I would like to apoligise to all cucumber/tomato, and other vegetable lovers/worshippers/haters/allergics, and fanatics in general who want to kill me. Sorry.

It is too late, a tomatwa has been laid upon you, you will feel the fury of the vegihad !

Most cucumber/tomato apologists I have met tell me I'm great, they are surely right , I can totally understand the anger of the acorns out there however - like of course whatever!

But the acorns are nuts !

They could do anything, there is no defence against them, nobody is safe !

Not that I have anything against nuts, some of my best friends are nuts.

It's the fruits I worry about (ducks low)

Best thing we in the West can do is to look at our own history to an era when we were not so free owing to the hegemony of the Catholic church.

Along came the Renaissance and with it opened up the very beginnings of our modern Western society.

OK, lets simply wait for another 100-150 years...

Just found that there are going to reinstate the production of "Idomeneo". Earliest production slot is December. I bet tickets will be a premium.

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp...&story_id=33532

Random wikipedia factoid about Idomeneo:


There is a plaque on the building where Mozart lived in Munich during the time he was writing the opera. The building is across the street from the Alter Hof (Burgstraße 7) and now houses the Ludwig Beck notions shop.

The first reinstated production of Idomeneo took place on Monday at the Deutsche Oper with heavy security, but without any off-stage drama.

From Bloomberg: Berlin's 'Idomeneo' Fails to Stir Fuss Even With Severed Heads

And from the Los Angeles Times: Staging of 'Idomeneo' goes calmly

What's with that worshipper of Poseiden heckling the opera?

As an Opera and classical music fan I've been to the Deutsche Oper and the Staatsoper a few times.

This leads me to conclude that this whole thing is just a publicity stunt.

The quality of Opera here in Berlin is utterly appalling. The productions I saw were barely adequately sung, were poorly acted, immature in design and staging, and outrageously overproduced. They had all the artistry, subtlety and delicacy of the Wehrmacht invading Poland.

Which is exactly what this performance seems to be too.

La Scala Milan can cost €2000 at ticket. Berlin Opera can cost less than €10, but you get what you pay for, and with a few notable recent exceptions there's probably, possibly, slightly less Nazis at La Scala.

Sorry, what the feck do Nazis have to do with the quality of opera? Since you brought it up though, give your head a shake. Guaranteed you find more right wingers in northern Italy than you do in Berlin.

Everything is offensive to Muslims.

Why do they choose to live in non Muslim countries ?

German Opera and Nazis have quite a considerable connection. It's well documented in many places, so go look if you are interested.

Specifically in this case, and specifically in Berlin and Brandenberg, the return of Nazism is a serious problem and anything that adds yet more fuel to that fire is dangerous. There are right wingers, right here, right now, who are indeed using this Opera situation to their advantage. It's a gift for them, a great Christmas present.

So there's your contemporary connection, right here in Berlin. Maybe not in Munich, bit Munich is a very very very different place to Berlin. The true extent of the Nazi problem here is most probably very underreported in the media.

Yes, there are plenty of right wingers in northern Italy. I am aware of that, that's why I said "possibly","slightly". You read that part didn't you?

Since you are from Munich you are likely not be aware of the situation here. I understand it to be different from Munich (this is a Berlin thread, you knew that too didn't you?) .

Salon.com offers a pretty amusing recap of the Idomeneo opening night events. Some highlights from the article:


(Note: no obvious neo-Nazis spotted by this reporter.)

and, oh yeah, there's actually a bit about the singing:

2000 euros for a divo (R. Alagna) to storm off stage after his first aria...leaving his cover to complete ACT I in jeans and undershirt...that's money WELL spent (she replied with unabashed sarcasm...).

(Here is where I would post the link if I knew how!)

However, I may have to agree with you on the publicity stunt part. If memory serves...Idomeneo was about some doings on Crete just after the Trojan War. How, exactly, do any of the severed heads (other than Posiedon) have to do with the story? AND I hasten to add...who goes to a Mozart Opera to see severed heads? You go for those spectacular arias...and in Idomeneo...that quartet with Ilia, Idom., Idamante, and Electra. Maybe the severed heads are there to distract the audience from the bad singing to which you refer in your post!

Just my 2 cents!

xoxo
Belle