Foreigners wearing Tracht

I would start a poll, but it's fairly plain as day which way it would go. However, I had the misfortune of meeting a Bavarian girl whose second sentence to me was that she disagreed with foreigners wearing Tracht. I then asked a Bavarian friend of mine what he thought and his response was that he had no problem with those non-Bavarians wearing Tracht who had didn't constantly run down Bavaria and its people and showed no interest in its culture, etc. This I agree with. It raises the question then as to why so many people state their loathing of the German language and refuse to learn it, constantly compain about the unfriendliness of the Bavarians and how fucked-up Bavaria is, are then the first to don Tracht. Anyhow, would be interested in what others think on this topic. Maybe you think the Bavarian girl was right...

VERY interesting thread Ulysses!

I'd wager the grumpy old fucks who moan about non-Bavarians wearing Tracht are the same ones who moan that so called "Ausländer" don't "integrate".

Well, I think that girl is a bitch for saying that. If you live in Bavaria and enjoy the culture, you belong in Tracht. I can understand your point about people not wanting to learn the language though.. I had a Aussie friend who was in her dirndl on the train, was asked a question in German but couldn't respond. She was embarassed about it, but it's not such a big deal.

Dirndls on girls, Bavarian or not, are really sexy, that's why I wear mine!

as to non-Bavarians wearing Trachtenl, think it's quite a compliment to the Bavarian tradition myself, though if one of these Trachten-wearing non-Bavarians started slagging off Bavaria/Munich/Germany I'd have a few words to say to em!

I heard years ago from a Bavarian that Bavarians loathe the fact that foreigners or Zugezogene wear their regional dresses and it did influence me since I did not want to step on anybody´s toes... I however changed my opinion this year and bought a second-hand one and wore it at the Fest. Did not get any weird looks or ugly comments and will buy myself a gorgeous one for next year...

I think as long as whomever is wearing tracht doesn't try and pass themselves off as Bavarian then where's the harm ?

It's a bit of fun and shows people willing to join in the atmosphere right ?

If we travel that route do you have to be British to wear Reebok shoes or American to wear the countless items that have the stars and stripes on them somewhere ?

as long as the tracht is nice and the person wearing has some connection to bavaria, why not... however, tourists/people who treat tracht like a carnival event, not so sure.

What about non Scots wearing kilts. Surely that is criminal?

I had a Bavarian girl maybe 19 or 20 ask me why I was wearing Tracht one night in the Schottenhammel. She started talking to me in Bayrisch, we ended up having a conversation in Germish and then she hit me with "Why are you wearing that, its nothing to do with you?" She didn't say it in a overly nasty way but it made me feel stupid...

If I have to learn the language, why shouldn't I wear Tracht? They're both parts of the culture, so why be forced to do one but discouraged from doing the other?

Personally, I have never had anyone scold me for wearing a dirndl. Any Bavarian I have ever spoken to had nary a cross word to say about it.

I have real (never for the Wiesn) and party Tracht due to having a former boyfriend from Bad Reichenhall plus being resident here since 1999, so yes I have been in a Trachtenverein in deepest darkest Bavaria, yes I do speak German and Bavarian, yes I love it here and therefore yes I'm proud to wear it.
And anyone who wants to disagree is ganz scho dappig.
Plus I like the compliments.

My old man was over for the fest and was shocked and appauled when approached by and English guy in a kilt!

Just how old is this tradition of wearing tracht to Oktoberfest anyway? I watched a documentary on TV showing lots of filmage of the fest from the 20's. There wasn't a person in tracht to be found. I suspect that the city folk, all in their "Sunday Best" would have thought that only peasants wear tracht anyway. Certainly wasn't the fashion at the fest in its early years as a celebration of the royal couple's wedding.

So, since the peasant class was mostly wiped out by WW2, and the fest didn't really restart until about 1948, just how old is this tradition really? When did it really catch on? 30 years ago? 15?

Also what about those Lowland Scots.

I personally think foriegners wearing tracht is a little bit taking the piss. I think tracht looks great and I don't actually blame people for wanting to wear it, I just couldn't do it myself. Unless it was bought for me by some gorgeous Bavarian woman, so that's what I'm going to wait for...
This could take a while!

well i'm now on my second pair of lederhosen as my knodel plus maß consumption multiplied by age made the first pair way too tight. the only shit i've ever had is from zugereiste who despire everything barvarian. those who complain are probably also those who think a headscarf shouldnt be worn because its not part of "our" culture.

Are you looking for an argument? Be quick, I'm off home soon.

Good question. When I moved here 14 Oktoberfests ago, the only people wearing Trachten were "real Bavarians" and often they were quite old, I mean like retirees. Over the years, it's become quite cool to wear Trachten to the Fest. I know of several people who at the time of purchasing their Lederhosen or Dirndl had only lived here for a couple of months and probably couldn't even say please and thank you in German.

I'd make a fair-sized wager that if Trachten wasn't in at the moment, most of the TTers also wouldn't own it.

I bought my first Dirndl after 6 years of living here, after playing in a Bavarian band for 6 years, after having more occasions than just beer fests to wear it and after learning both German and Bavarian.

I asked all my classes (which are filled with all kinds of Bavarians) what they thought of it. I don't think one person had a problem with non-Bavarians wearing Tracht. They all said it was no big deal. The only point one girl in my class made was that a traditional dirndl is long and that these short porno-dirndls are a bit of a disgrace (not so much to do with tourists though really). On the other hand, my husband (from Saxony) wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of Lederhosen. His reason being that he's not from here.

you think an auslander in other countries wearing a kimono, a sari, a dirndl is stupid, course we cant carry it off like the locals but its a part of the culture. whether one wears it for fun or is seriously "integrated" its friggin ok. its like speaking shiite german, whether i am integrated or a tourist you can appreciate that but not me dress sense. stupid i think!

anyone said you cant speak german, french, what not just cuz you not from that land.

where is the line?

@ADE

mst tracht in its present form is, like the scottish kilt, a neo-romantic reinvention from the mid to late 1800 hundreds of some idealised peasant lifestyle, and is the direct result of the ever increasing industrialisation which was somehow considered dehumanising.

Not me. But I have met one or two Highlanders who claim to take exceptions to non-Highlanders wearing kilts. Also a woman wouldn't be wearing one anyway

Heathen Bastards ! A D- report mark for all of them Jenny !

it would be if the Scots had invented Kilts. They didn't, so they have no monopoly on them.

Wearing dirndls and lederhosen to Oktoberfest is way more popular now than when I went to my first Wies'n just 6 years ago. The first couple of years I was here, very few young people wore the whole costume, although you'd see a lot of mieder/jeans combos, just wearing the jewelry, and other kinds of compromises.

However, I think it would be prudent to point out that just wearing a dirndl or lederhosen isn't the same as wearing real Tracht. Each little town and village has its own traditional costume, as you can see if you go to the Sunday parade. If you chose a town or village, like say, Miesbach, and decided to buy and wear their distinctive costume, even though you're not from there and have nothing to do with the town, I'd say the Miesbachers have a right to be offended.

Unless they dress up like Native Americans for Fasching.

OG is right and with all his other troubles the few bobs he gets from his kilt inventing patent is probably all thats keeping the wolf from Mel Gibson's door.

Anthony's question is indeed a very good one. I don't remember seeing any tracht at my first Oktoberfest 21 years ago.
I've tried to do a google on this but not turned up much, just a couple of newspaper articles from this year that mention that more and more people are wearing tracht each year, which conversely would imply that there was a time in the recent past when it was worn much less.
one example
I think it's a fashion thing myself, which doesn't necessarily make it bad. All traditions have to start somewhere.

Exile, no, I have the full dance get-up with the sash but it is in Dumfries. As for Highlanders saying that, well, some of them just are a bit odd. It must be said that lowland dress can differ and does indeed, at least the ones that wear it in my family don't do the full Highland dress thing. It would look funny (as in strange not ha ha).

actually i think the response all women at the occy fest wearing dirndls got was to take it off

men in lederhosen were also ready to take it off.

dont think this is an auslander thingy!

Yes, but you would still be considered a fairly lousy Englishman if caught wearing a kilt. It's like Englishmen supporting Germany in the World Cup!

My personal take on Tracht is that one should at least show an interest in Bavaria say by having learnt the language, etc. I disagree with those people who buy their Tracht on arrival in Bavaria.

most of my coworkers are Bavarian, and I stopped by the office one day after I bought my second dirndl, they were all excited to see it, and what it would look like on me. No problem that I am not German, or Bavarian but wearing a Dirndl.

always think that people take the kilt to seriously. It was invented by an English Quaker as a convenient item of clothing for Gaelic factory workers (as opposed to the old plaid cloak they used to wear). The tartans themselves were made up by an Edinburgh businessman in the C18th to confer a bit of glamour, history and tradition about them. Any twat who tells you, you can only wear your 'family' tartan and only if you are Scottish should be toiled to boil his head. If you want to wear it, then why the hell not?

why should that make a difference? Its their money, and they are spending it in Bavaria. Its no different that landing in Thailand and putting on a sarong, or a Sari in India, or a Kilt in Scotland (as mentioned). So, why is Trachten different?

I've only ever heard delight from the bavarians that people are wearing tracht. As stated before, tracht is coming back in style and the older bavarians are especially pleased to see all the young people (incl. auslaender) wearing tracht (or at least some semblance of tracht)

You are a complete TWAT please read some Scotish history, Wearing of the Tarten, speaking Gaelic and carring a Claymore were on the whole punishable by death after the Scotish defeat at Culloden. Hence not many people wore kilts for a couple of hundred years, when these laws were dropped people started to wear kilts and tarten again.

Shit... thats just gonna wind up BTC...

I vote for banning Germans wearing jeans and cowboy boots. And mullets.

I've been here since '98, and my first Wies'n was in '99. My then girlfriend (who comes from Munich) said she was wearing her Dirndl, and I asked me what I was going to wear. I said my Jeans and a T-shirt. She responded: "NO you are NOT!! We have to get you Lederhosen!!!"

Since then I always attend the Wies'n in my Trachten, whether right or wrong. My hoch Deutsch is fairly good, but I can't speak bavarian (though I can understand most of it). Most Bavarians mistake me for German anyway, so I've never been accosted by anyone for being an Ausländer wearing Trachten.

suggest you read some history yourself laddie. The Dress Act was brought in in 1747 and repealed in 1783. It was only in place for 36 years and barely enforced. During that time, highland dress was still worn by the Scottish regiments who were exempted by the act. However, the real takeoff in Highland dress took place with the visit of George IV to Edinburgh in 1822 arranged by Sir Walter Scott. Wanting to impress on the king the foreignness of Scotland he had all the society of Edinburgh decked out in tartan in an absurdly camp "gathering of the clans" on Leith Shore wa<iting for the King. George was sop taken with it that he immediately ordered a kilt for himself and was painted (and parodied) wearing it. This ensured that the wearing of kilts and tartan became a roaring success with the Scottish middle classes and the myth of it being our traditional garb took off from there.

the original highland dress of the Celts, the belted plaid, is rarely if ever worn at all.

Good point. I suppose when in Rome...

Because you look so cute in it.


The Wiesn started up again in 1949, and anyone who had halfway decent clothes wore them. It really was only the peasant class that wore Trachten to the Wiesn. The modern fad began slowly and sneakily in the mid to late 1980's - I remember sewing a maternity dress out of Dirndl material so as to blend in.

If you have the Bavarian savoir vivre, the local Baroque attitude towards drinking, celebrating and schnaxling - go ahead, wear your Tracht. But keep it decent - not the gunny sacks and neon colors that do not please the eye and are only good to sop up what you can't keep down.

i was talking to a bavarian friend of my'n about ladehosen the other day. He was carrying on about how great it is that people are wearing trachten again. Aparently its only recently that decent traditional laderhosen have been able to be mass produced. Before it was only really crappy pairs that were mass produced. Sinced lederhosen are becoming more affordable people are starting to wear them again.

When I was living in Germany, I was working at a very German Max Planck institute (as opposed to the much more international one next door), and we had reserved tables every year. I didn't dress up the first two years, but on the third, my twin sister and her husband were out to visit, and we all dressed up. All the Germans I worked with thought it was great and had big smiles on their faces to see all the Auslander/in employees dressed up Bavarian-style. They thought it was cute.

I think Englanders should only be allowed to drink English Beer and wear English clothing until they are 100% fluent in the local language and know how to moan about 48 different imaginary german health problems, complain about being overworked by 15 minutes this week, and whinge about drafty windows before walking up a mountain the next day.

So they were laughing at you basically huh?

lot's of people go to Texas, buy a cowboy hat and some boots, but never get on an actual horse... sometimes they are trying to fit-in, sometimes making fun of the locals, and others are strippers. Same goes for Tracht.

One branch of my family booked out of northern Bavaria in the late 1700s. Does that make me Bavarian enough to qualify for wearing lederhosen? It works for me. Aside from feeling a little silly the first time I wore them in public, I've only had appreciative comments from the locals ... but then I look prettty German.

I have another branch that hails from Scotland, with a tartan and old family castle and everything. Someday I'll get me a kilt, maybe wear that to Oktoberfest on alternate visits.

Then there are the Irish and Hungarian branches, not to mention the Native American blood floating around from my mama's side.

Geez, if I kit out traditional dress for my known family roots, I'd never need to buy another Halloween costume! Face it, most of us Yanks are Heinz 57 varieties

I have lived in Munich for 17 years. First time I wore a dirndl to the fest was about 1992 and it was bought from the fleamarket. My friends from the UK loved them, so when they came over a year later I had already been to the markets and bought them dresses to. I have never ever had a problem wearing them, even got married in one. (I actually went to a shop and bought that one) Grown out of them though. For my 3 year olds birthday we went weiss wurst breakfasting and all the boys wore their lederhosen and the waitress told me off for not wearing my dirndl. Looks like I will be going back to the second hand stores for a new dress.

I own 5

Isn't that actually 3 now DD ?