Family-friendly residential districts of Berlin

Hello everyone,
I'll be moving to Berlin with my 4 year old son sometime in July. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on Charlottenburg, Prenzlauerberg or Berlin mitte as an area for a single mum. I would like the best environment for my child and I'm not interested in going out in the evening but more as access to playgrounds/parks and of course shopping for amenities. I would also like to be within easy reach of the centre for museums etc..
Naturally being a single mum means I can't afford a huge amount of rent and was looking at perhaps 650€ warm for a 3/4 room flat.
I would be grateful for any help. Thank you.

My sister lives in Prenzlauerberg with her 3 kids. It is one of the more child friendly areas of Berlin and there are loads of mums with babies there. There are several playgrounds, one on the Helmholtzplatz, one on the Kolwitzplatz and there is a fairly large shopping centre by Schönhauser Allee station where there are supermarkets, pharmacies, clothing stores. My sister has been very happy with the kita (kindergarden) that her 3 kids attend and the older boy is now enjoying middle school. There are quite a few cafes but it always seems very children friendly in general there. Its also not far from Mitte, you could walk there in about 20 mins or take the train a few stops to Alexanderplatz.

I'd say Pberg is a good choice. There are lots of kids and parks here. I think around Kollwitzplatz or Helmholzplatz are best

Neukölln is the place to be!!

PLB without a doubt, just walk around there on the weekends, Sunday is a very nice family day there, you prob not get masses of space for your € there but lots of other mums/kids/families, the West is pretty dead and not cheap, good area is on the edge of PLB try Pankow is short walk or bike ride to PLB but much cheaper or more space for your €. good luck..

My husband and I are trying to decide between getting an apartment in Prenzlauer Berg near stargarder str or a nice altbau in Friedenau. I like the idea of living in Prenzlauer berg since we have a baby and I think it might fit our lifestyle but we just cant find any nice , reasonably priced altbau apts there but we did find this neubau apt that isnt so bad but just not as nice as an altbau. we also found a nice altbau apartment in Friedenau. Can anyone help with some pros and cons of these two options?thanks.

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we looked at some apartments in Friedenau and my overall impression was that although the area is kid friendly and you can get some good deals on lovely apts, it's also kind of insular and a little dull. Not as many places to go out or funky shops, less foreigners, less action. If you spend a lot of time at home (work from home?) and a nice altbau is really, really important to you then maybe ... but otherwise I think you'll have a lot more fun as a young mom in Pberg.

I live in Charlottenburg near Lake Lietzensee and I find it a great area for children. There are lots of kindergardens in the neighborhood as well as the lake itself (with ducks and swans) and 3 different playgrounds. There is also good access to public transportation and nice restaurants. The best thing to do is to check out www.immobilienscout24. to see what's available and get an idea of prices. How many sq. meters are you looking for?

I also live in Charlottenburg also close to the Lake Lietzensee and agree with sunny! Plus did you check out this link: English-speaking playgroups in Berlin

My family will be moving to Berlin to work. I am buying a flat for my family to move into, but I want it to be a good investment.

Problem is: we need at least 80 square meters (3+ rooms) so that there is a separate bedroom for our small twins, and we are on a limited budget.

The areas we can afford are Wedding or Neukoelln, and we have seen suitable flats in both areas, but we are totally confused about which to choose and the agents have given TOTALLY conflicting accounts of the respective areas.

The agent promoting the Wedding flat, says:

Wedding had been fused with Mitte in 2001 and this will give it cudos. Prices will rise as people are pushed out of (now very expensive) old Mitte. Wedding has artists, students and young people, and this is a sure sign of gentrification around the corner. It is central, on the U-bahn.

Neukoelln is a completely different matter. Very poor. Decreasing population. High unemployement. Falling rents. Falling prices. Very high immigrant worker population. Language, cultural and social problems. Crime. There is no sign of any improvements in Neukoelln (except may be in the far south).

But the agent promoting the north Neukoelln flat says:

North Neukoelln is the last remaining affordable central Berlin district. Look what's happened to previously periah areas like Kreuzberg and Friedrichshain. They are now the hottest areas. Prices have shot up. They are now totally trendy. Northern Neukoelln has got to be next - look at the geography - squeezed as it is between hot areas Friedrichshain/Kreuzberg and even more expenseive Charlottenbug. Neukoelln is now where the really hip people hang out - those who think that Friedrichshain Kreuzberd has got too expensive and yuppy. Check out Richards Keiz and up around Reuter area. Its happenning, man! And with property so dead cheap, this is where you'll really make a profit.

Wedding is dead. A dormitory zone. Young cool people hate it. There's nowhere to got out. It's also in the North, where there's no rippble effect as neighbouring areas are also stagnant. The action has always been in the south of Berlin. You need to be inside the S-bahn ring, which north Neukoelln is but which Wedding isn't.

Is there anybody who has spent enough time in Berlin to know which agent was the bullshitter?

Any advice gratefully received, as we need to make our decision very soon.

thanks, Simondaisy

After 6 years in Berlin I would say that, in general, if you must buy an apartment Neukölln (with the exception of Gropiusstadt) is the better option. There are some nice well-preserved areas and lots of parks. Tempelhof, my personal favorite example of Nazi architecture, and Volkspark Hasenheide on one side and Treptower Park on the other. David Bowie even wrote a track about it.

But why not rent a place for a while?

Let us know your budget, and we can advise better. Both Neukoln and Wedding are very much working class districts, with very sizeable Turkish populations. Neukoln in particular, is very loud. Wedding probably has a bit more character, and is close to the river, with very good public transport. It also has a reasonably large artistic and alternative population, due to the Nerlin government funding artistic types to move there. Neukoln has the advantage of being close to Kreuzberg, if you like your entertainment rough and ready, and is, in parts close to the Landwerk Kanal - which has lovely cafes and walks during the summer. Also one of my favourite Berlin cafes, Cafe jacques is on Mayerbach Ufer, right on the border of Neukoln.

So swings and roundabouts, depends what you are looking for in terms of family activities, entertainment and general quality of life.

Thanks for the replies folks! You are really helping me focus on what our objectives are. It's funny, I keep reading people saying 'why buy, when you can rent?'. But I can't help it. I'm a Brit used to owning my own home. Plus the fact that property in Berlin is dirt cheap compared to London. These factors made me think that I'd be making a good investment for my family's future ... but maybe I'm wrong???

So, to be honest we have twin objectives. We want somewhere where my family would enjoy to live, but we also want to buy in an area where prices are likely to rise. I'm sorry if I'm betraying my British mentality, but there you are.

As for the scene, I discovered Berlin when I was a student and maybe I'm fantasizing about reliving my misspent youth. But I'm older and have kids now and my lifestyle has changed. So, I need to make sure I'm buying the flat for me now and not me as a young man. That said, if an area is 'hip' it's going to have more nice cafe's and restaurants which I'd enjoy and property goes up in trendy places.

But to answer colinmanning's question, the budget is up to about 100k for a largish apartment. We did see a lovely big 100 sqm flat in Prenzlauer Berg, but at E140k it would have stretched our finances well beyond our comfort zone. Also, in case you know Berlin intimately, and can advise on specific locations: the Neukoelln flat is in the zone south of the Landwehr Kanal, but north of Sonnenallee (5th floor, no lift!). View a bit industrial beyond the Kanal, but quiet, green and open. (close to S-Bahn but not U-Bahn) The Wedding flat is in a patch just NW of Volkspark Humbolthain (Close to Tube but not S-Bahn) - this one's on the first floor but therefore more expensive.

Does anyone know these neigbourhoods and are they ok? (Or should we have thrown caution to the wind and bought the rather dark but big flat in Prenzleberg?)

Please write some more - we need to make a decision before I go nuts.

Thanks, simondaisy

I'd really recommend putting that English mentality on hold a little - come and rent, ( why not in both the areas) for a few months, get to see what day-to-day life is like in these neighbourhoods, and then if you like one, go ahead with your buying plan. Check the other threads on here about buying a flat here too - don't just assume because they are cheap compared to London or the UK that it is a good idea. Remember there are tens of thousands of empty flats at any given time in Berlin, so you won't just easily be able to sell when you want ( and even if you could you get walloped for capital gains tax unless you stay here a decade). Berlin is not like places such as London or Brighton, where buying a shoe-box in a central area is always a good and eventually profitable idea. The vast majority of Berliners - and Germans - prefer to rent. I know it seems to us English that the prices are too good to be true - given the fact property prices in the UK are insane - but don't rush in because of that. Reselling won't be easy, not in the two areas you mention. Yes, expect to see both areas improve - but that doesn't mean prices will rise. ( For what it's worth I would go for North Neukolln rather than Wedding, but they are not really that different - register with a mitwohnzentrale or use some of the tips on TT for accommodation agencies and check 'em out - it's painfully simple to rent here).
If your intention is to make money, get the Prenzlauer Berg one. It's probably the only neighbourhood where there is such high demand to live there - God knows why, it's been dead for years IMHO, ever since it got invaded by the Gwyneth-Paltrow-soft-green-Stepford-Wives, but it's pretty and childfriendly if that's your thing. Neukolln and Wedding much more gritty and real - ie not just full of white people attempting to escape racial diversity "white-flight" style. My personal antipathy to the gentrification of P'Berg aside, that's where you will probably make money - newcomers to the city overwhelmingly head to the old East, at the moment anyway.
Final point - there's a lot of property-based hype about Berlin in the UK the last couple of years. Be wary of it. Similarly, beware of falling for the Berlin-is-so-hip spiel. It's a great great city, but is in danger of becoming overhyped. And then the people who made it vibrant will leave it to the bo-bos, and head elsewhere.

The area you describe in Neukoelln, nearer to K'berg is rather nice. Certainly the area around the Maybachufer. Which in summer is a great place for a lazy game of Pétanque. There are lots of nice resturants scattered about, playgrounds, parks. It has a settled community feel. Having the canal close by is also a plus. Being near water helps (me at least) escape that claustrophobic feeling that living in big cities can cause.

Prenzlauer Berg is, without question, the more ecconomically 'lively' area and offers a good 'quality of life' feeling. It's also very white. Home to berlin's creative nouveau riche.

The story of Prenzlauer Berg post 1989 is really interesting. Because of the dirt cheap rent and plethora of available empty spaces the area developed into an alternative/artistic/student creative melting pot. It's more consertative these days - now that the 'nach die Wende' community are older - but, largely due to this fact, it's also the only part of Germany experincing a baby boom! Needless to say, it's is a great place for kids.

I don't have much cause to go to Wedding and, as I say, friends of mine with kids have moved on. So, can't comment on that area.

On a practical note. How old are your kids? Do you want them to go to bi-lingual school? Could this also be a factor in your decision making?

... well said Mr Cross!

Thanks again!

Lots more to think about. I'll bear in mind the 'don't buy, rent' advice, since it's coming thick and fast.(Although nobody has quite explained why it's not a good investment to buy a flat in one of the most exciting capitals in the world which has miraculously low prices for such a great city - surely it has to be Germany's turn sometime - their house prices can't fall forever) But, in case we do go through with our purchase, hopefully the feedback here will at least help us not to buy a complete stinker.

As for the location, I wish it was by Maybachufer, but its more like at the bottom of the Weigandufer, next to the Industriegebiet. It's literally on the last house before the industry (and allotments) start.

And as for the Wedding flat, it's right near Volkspark Humbolthain, which I'm told is nice.

Finally, there's the floor thing. We think we as a family could handle a 4th floor flat without lift, but will that make renting out (which we plan to do until we are ready to move in 6 months to a year from now) or eventualy re-selling difficult? (Neukoelln flat). The Wedding flat is by contrast on the 2nd Floor.

Any views on the 'floor thing'. As a Londoner not used to high-rise living, I am not tuned into the local feeling about being high up in a house without a lift. I'm told (by agents!) that this is entirely normal in Berlin and does not put people off.

What do you think?

Cheers, simondaisy

Little bit confused why you would even consider buying a flat right next to an industrial estate in what is - rightly or wrongly(see other threads) - still considered one of Berlin's grottiest neighbourhoods. No wonder it's cheap. Sounds like your chances of reselling would be close to zero.
On the floors issue, another thing to bear in mind is that 'erdgeschoss' flats, though often cheaper, are difficult to sell ( ground floor/or on the street). And something on the ground floor of either Wedding or Neukolln is gonna be doubly difficult, that's for sure! Being up high doesn't tend to bother Berliners, I don't think, although no lift sounds a pain in the ass.
Thy whys and wherefores of buying property in Berlin is a complicated issue - covered in plenty of other more specific threads, I think - and you certainly WILL find some that back up the estate agent hype ... ie that the prices can't really be lower, and that Berlin is increasingly high-profile and desirable place to live. So MAYBE a good investment. BUT there's lots of caveats to that. Firstly, new, wealthier people moving to Berlin largely want to live in areas such as Mitte, P'Berg, Schoneberg, Charlottenburg, Friedrichshain, or Kreuzberg. People with less money are going to have plenty of opportunity to pick and choose a place to rent for a long time yet. UK house prices are high because there are not enough places to go round. The opposite is true in Berlin. Don't necessarily expect a boom in the population here either - in the 90s following the post-unification euphoria the government confidently predicted the population would shift from 3.5 to 5 million people by year 2000. It never happened. The population actually declined, and is still only hovering around the 3.5 million mark. Point is, it will be a long long time before people have to fight for space in Berlin... if ever. And whilst that's the case, most people will rent - and those that seek to buy will be choosy, and want an altbau in a 'good' area.
The only reason to buy in Berlin is if you are in love with the city and life here. Not as an investment opportunity.
Don't want to be the prophet of doom here guys!! I've been through the same process myself - my partner and I were offered a 55m flat, perfectly nice in good area etc, for 51000 euros, which back in Autumn last year was only about 36 grand sterling. Coming from Brighton, where BEACH HUTS go for more, we were sorely tempted, and scraped about 40per cent of the price together and looked into financing. But the more thorough our research, we found a number of reasons why it would be better just to rent ( and enjoy the money!). And this was a flat on the border of Schoneberg, two mins walk to the Tiergarten. In London, the very proximity to, say, Hyde Park, would add another few zeroes onto the price. Not here.
Maybe your situation is different, and you have lots of spare cash - in which case, well, maybe it's worth taking a punt. But think it through - and definitely check out the areas first. Berliners are very picky/loyal about their "kiez" or neighbourhood, more so than the English - think of Berlin as consisting of dozens of little micro-neighbourhoods. Some of these are highly in demand - others people wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Confusingly, sometimes they are even next door to each other! Get to know the vibe first.
Whatever happens, good luck, and if you move here, have a ball!

You are assuming you will pay and get the keys immediately and then you are going to find a tenant that would rent it out, all in the scope of 6 months and then you will move in. The market in Germany is bloody slow because people prefer to rent than to buy. The process of buying a property may take from 6 to 12 weeks, even more if there is some trouble in the mean time. Even finding a tenant is slow if the property is not in the trendy/wanted areas.

I would not advise you to buy anything if you do not plan to live in the property for long term.

My family will relocate to berlin in 2009. we have two boys (4 and 6). My husband will work on Kudam. We are looking for a house with garden (to buy). What is the best area to live with small children (quiet but close to everything!)?

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I'd really say in your situation that you should come here before you buy and investigate personally. Pretty much any of the outer areas outside the far east (south, west and north) are nice for families, but to get a good deal on a nice place you really should see it in person and anyway I think it's near impossible to buy a property without being there to sign the contracts, unless you find a really good lawyer that you can trust to investigate everything for you and give power of attourney to, and it would actually probably be cheaper to just come here...

A house with garden close to everything? Don't know what close is to you - but in general it's pretty impossible. Maybe something in Tempelhof or Wilmersdorf but these houses are sought by nearly every family... better start praying

Ya true. I'd go for 'close to some sort of public transportation' rather than 'close to everything'. OR you could go for a larger apartment with a nice courtyard.

Not in Berlin. You want a house with a nice garden and in a quite area then you have to go out of the city.

Quiet but close to everything? Well I'm in Lichterfelde West, Its quiet, out the way an yet it only takes me 20 mins to get straight into Mitte.