Child safety car seats

Where can I find a good child car seat? I have looked on amazon and a few of the baby stores. None of the seats look that safe to me(I prefer rearfacing and there doesn't seem to be much on the market rfing). I currently have a baby schale that goes til 13k, and my baby is still small. I have some time before I have to find a new one, but I like to know beforehand so I can read reviews and such.

Also does anyone know the law for non German/non Eu citizens and car seats? I read on adac, children must be restrained until 12, etc and there is a 30 EU fine if they child isn't restrained but it doesn't specify is that for German citizens or everyone? (because what if you are visiting Germany and not a resident and you are coming from the airport with only your home country's car seat) if you are not a German citizen, can you use your home country's car seats? Or does that make your insurance void? (and the 30 EU fine)

Rear facing is only needed for infant seats where the seat is held more so than the baby. Once your child is large enough (age is not the factor, size and weight is), there are some great safe seats on the market. Romer is highly recommended in all the consumer product safety tests. Cosco has some good seats too.

As for laws here, they are for the weak minded. Until your child is large enough to fit the auto standards you need the extra safety for the smaller size. 50-60lbs is the minimum for standard auto seats regardless of what the law says. They go by age and kid sizes do not go by age! Funny that the Germs are behind on this aspect.

My mother wrote the book on US child auto safety standards.

I don't know what seat u have now but if it has an orange sticker on it that says ECE 44/02,44/03 or 44/04 your on the safe side.

I would figure by-law you are required to use a seat that is EU certified if your in Germany no matter where your coming from since it's part of the law (can't carry a gun either even if you have a license from backward county USA ;-)

So your next seat size is a group 2, question is do you have a car with iso-fix?

It's a child car seat system built into the car that allows you to "plug" the seat directly to the car frame. Have a look in your manual to find out (VW,Audi since about 1995 plus a few other makes in the last few years).

Next it's time to chose a seat.

Look at he ADAC and or Stiftungwarentest site you were on and check the crash test for the newest listing. Its safe to say that Römer is always at the top(just got our new seat 2 days ago;-).

If you have any questions fell free to ask since I worked for a child car seat manufacturer a while ago (even seen the crashes at the ADAC test center in münich;-)

Thanks for the help.
My current seat I bough here, it's a Primo Viaggio. We do have Isofix.
The seats at amazon (for example) usually don't say if they are Isofix or not. I have only seen on adac as opposed to other online shops where it says front facing. I really would prefer rear facing as everything I read in USA said rear facing for as long as possible is safer. I have come to really believe that
A lot of the Germans seats I have seen do not have 5pt harness, mainly 3 pt. in USA it is said 5 pt is much safer than 3pt. Some German seats are just a seat belt wrapped around the child seat and I don't see how that is safe. (I assume it is because they have them though)

I just use the Britax ones I brought from the states. They have a 5 point harness with LATCH attachment but no ECE or Tuv certification. Having checked out the Tuv certified ones in ASU I'll be keeping my Britax.

You are correct that keeping a child rear facing is the safest. Also put him/her in the center seat in the back (safest place in the car).

I'm always amazed to see people driving with toddlers in the front passenger seat in a car seat when there is plenty of room in the back. Who cares if it is legal - is it smart?

The front passenger seat is the worst place to be in an accident.

Rear facing seats are not on sale in Germany because in most cases it means bolting the seat or frame to the car frame and it is a general german opinion that for no reason at all will someone drill a hole in there car.

Scandinavian makers make a few rear facing models.

Tip:keep your baby in the group1 seat(rear facing) until the head is just a bit over the top(approx. 10 months to 1.5 years depending on size). going by weight is bull.

Going by weight with all seat sizes is bull by the way. In shops they argument that the belt will not react, with is not true. The belt system has an internal blocking system that reacts to just the slightest breaking no matter if someone is strapped in or not.

Rear facing for larger children is tough because the weight is much greater and I have seen a lot of crashtest videos where it went all wrong

Just for info Britax is Römer(its there cheaper make and often there export version)

Passenger front seat ONLY if u can turn of the AIRBAG cause if not the airbag will just snap the kids head. Best is always in back on the right side or if u have a "real middle seat" than there.

If you live in Germany using a non Eucertified seat you might have trouble when you have an accident and the insurance comes snooping!

How is it their cheaper make? Are the EU regulations for car seats more stringent than the US? Based on some of the seats I've seen for sale in Germany they have the same cheap seats as the stuff sold in the US(Babies r us)

These are one of those issues where you have "the minimum standards to get certification" vs. "you get what you pay for".

NO, what you just said is bull. The harness system is based on size and weight of the kid. The lap part is more for weight and the shoulder part is more for size. Height and weight are more comparable with each other than either are with age. You wouldn't buy shoes based on your age, why the hell would you buy a car seat based on age?

I have one of the best car seats ever made. Top performer on Consumer Reports. Worked great in my Mazda, but was totally useless in my mother-in-law's European car. That is the next biggest problem. Even the best seat in the world is suddenly crap if your car doesn't hold it properly. It is the same problem with rear facing seats. Once your child attains a certain size, it is actually safer in a forward facing seat because of the build of most of the cars (not the child seats themselves). Unfortunately, car manufacturers and child safety seat designers haven't teamed up to solve the problem together.

What I said was that the seat belt always blocks no matter the weight in the seat at the time due to the mechanism (even if no one is sitting in it).

The weight and size guidelines are only average and date back to the 1970s so that manufacturers would have a guide line to go by.
So if your kid ways more than what is "allowed" by the guide line even though it's to short you should stick to the old seat until the size is reached(unless the kid is just to fat to fit in )

@eurovol: trying the seat in the car before buying is always important cause sometimes it just dont fit;-)

Thats why I suggested lil96 wait for her kid to be to big (height) for the seat and not until the weight is over the stated limit.

I have never seen what is sold in the US but in Germany the Britax models are absolute minimum standard where as the Römer are a higher standard even though its the same company.
Maybe Römer just puts the Britax tag on there export seats.

Are US standards higher?

I only worked in the EU market for children's seats and have no idea what the US standards are? Just saw some awesome videos of japanese makes snapping in half:::whoaa:::

Back in the US, Britax is one of the top car seat manufacturers and one of the most expensive brands you can buy. They are know great quality, comfort, and safety. Their convertible car seats (rear and forward facing) are typically over $200 dollars. They offer the use of latch connectors - which offer a more secure, tighter fit in your car. One of the biggest errors in car seat installation is leaving the car seat too loose. A car seat should not be able to move more than 1 inch in any direction. That can be difficult to achieve. You often need to place your own weight pressure on the car seat when you install it in your car in order to secure it tightly. You can also buy car seat tightners in the US. I use to use those in my parents car. They did not have the latch connectors in the seats (ISO . . ) so I would use the car seat tightner to secure my childrens' car seats.

State Farm (an American insurance company) along with Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia offers a website full of car seat safety info. The website is:

http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/...ic.jsp?id=77971

Lots of great info. Best car seat protection so far is a 5 point harness verus 3. Also, it is safer to keep a 4 to 6 year old in a large car seat like the Britax Marathon car seat (20 to 65 pounds and up to 49 inches tall) verus a booster seat. But often parents don't want to hear their children whine about having to sit in a big car seat while all their friends have a big kids booster seat.

Being from California, it amazes me to see parents place their young preschool child in the front seat (against the law in California) versus the back seat. A child is much safer in the back and in the middle as one other Toytowner pointed out.

I've been using my Britax convertible car seats out here and plan to buy another one when I go back for my youngest child. One thing to keep in mind is that car seats have HEIGHT and WEIGHT limits. Your child may fit the weight limit but at the same time maybe too tall for his or her car seat and may need a bigger one or they maybe within the height limit but over on weight.

Infant seats in the US are now typically up to about 21 pounds versus say 18 four years ago. So an infant (weight wise) can stay in their infant car seat over a year. But if you're child is like mine (90% percentile for height, he or she will outgrow it based on height.

Wow you guys are making my head spin lol. I still feel my USa seat is safer (which I have a USA convertable birth-65lbs and an EU infant carrier) than the seats I have seen in Germany. I really feel that my USA seat would hold up better and hold her in better and safer than the German seats I have seen. Does anyone know where I can compare the German standards and the USA standards?
What up with that leg on the Isofix seats? Is that to help it balance? A tether seems much more safe than that leg. (for example)

Also (for those who don't know) in USA a child must remain rfing until 1 and they reach 20lbs.


I am not sure what you mean about drilling a hole in the car because none of the seats I have seen need a hole to be drilled in the car to tether it. Either there is a tether clip (or whatever it is called) in the floor or the tether gets wrapped around the front seats anchor( the thing that keeps the front seats bolted to the floor). (depending on the car and the child seat) Plus not all rfing seats need to be tethered (unless you are in Canada, where *I think* it is mandatory)


Where are these? I have heard about them, but don't know where to find them. Also are the "legal" in Germany. I ask because in the manual for my EU car seat, it says this seat can be used in Frnace, Germany, Uk and Italy (It doesn't mention the entire EU?) Is it a flaw in the manual or is it really only legal in these countries. Would it be the same with a Scandanavian seat?


Again I am not sure what you mean, by all USA standards I have read the child should be an inch below the top of the child safety seat, it should never be above the seat rear facing or front facing.


Britax and Roemer might be manufactured by the same company, but they are not the same seats. They also might not be manufactured in the same place because there are several Britax factories around the world.


The USA version of the EU seat I have goes to 30lb or 30 inches, which ever comes first! I think now they are starting to get higher weights!

Here is a link about why rfing is best: http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

I can't remember if I asked or not, but does anyone know where I can compare EU and USa standards?

Like you, lil96 I think my kids are probably much safer in our US bought car seats ( I have 2 Britax and 1 infant carrier Graco) than what I have seen around. It would be nice to know what the German laws / standards are. Hopefully, someone can post a link or info on that.

Have you tried Baby Walz (?) for car seats. Never been there but have been told it is like a big Babies R US (baby center store) and they carry lots of stroller and car seat options from what I have seen in their catalog. It's about an hour away from Munich (Center of city) I believe.

I brought my car from the US. It has the LATCH system, as do the car seats. My Britax Marathon (5 point harness, Tether attached, and LATCH) is rock solid in installation.

FYI - After I converted my US car to German Specs it passed the Tuv inspection with the car seats installed. At least that will be my defense if ever asked.

I am a babywalz addict lol. If you ever want to go to one, let me know I can be your guide lol.
I haven't actually been to a bru, but my old local tru claimed online to be a bru. I was really surprised at the number of strollers they had at BW, car seat selection, not so big.

could I have my USA seat TUv certified? and how would I get that done?

Let me rephrase. The TÜV certified the car, the car seats just happened to be installed. I do not think they technically certified the car seats.

Bring your car seats to the TÜV in Westpark and just ask. I'm guessing that you would have to send it off to a testing facility at your expense thereby making it cost prohibited.

http://www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Transpor...6951/03atv.html

TÜV Service Centre Munich:
Ridlerstraße 57
80339 München
Telephone: +49 (0)89 57 40 61
Telefax: +49 (0)89 51 90 31 31

Opening hours:
Monday to Friday: 7am - 5:30pm
Saturday: 8am - 12pm

So do car seats in Germany need to be German or EU certified? Can you not use an American car seat?

Lil96, what about Amazon.uk as a car seat buying option? Been told since UK is part of the EU, you can shop Amazon UK without additional duties / taxes.

As far as child safety car seats in Germany go, there will be a change in the law starting April 8, 2008. Older seats that do not have the ECE-44/03 or 44/04 on the test seal located on the back or bottom of the seat will no longer be allowed. Here's a link in German explaining it all:

http://www.anwalt24.de/profil/716045/blog/15/2662

Translated WheresTheRock's link online. Translation is not that great but if my online translation is somewhat accurate, it seems like if you have a car seat with no approval "sticker" than you get a 5 Euro ticket / penalty. If that is the case, I'm more than willing to pay the 5 euros if I ever get stopped and fined for the luxury of keeping my little one's in our Britax car seats and Graco infant carrier.

My impression from the online translation is that the government wants to stop the use of outdated "hand-me-down" car seats that are being used (car seats being passed on from sibling to sibling then to friend, cousin, etc). I'm assuming they assume newer is safer.

Also, does anyone know the rules on 3rd row car seat benchs in Germany? I'm thinking of getting a Mercedes station wagon (E-class T model) with a 3rd row (Klappbanksitz). I read our Britax car seat manuals and we are not suppose to use our car seats in a rear facing seat nor side facing seat. My daughter is big for her age (90% percentile) and is 4 1/2 so she could sue a booster. My impression is that the 3rd row seat (Klappbanksitz) does not require a booster since the seat belts are positioned low for children (it's hard for an adult to sit back there without bending one's head).

rock-that's pretty much what i read on adac, but does that mean that before anything was ok? can someone be grandfathered in?

oops just saw your post too cdm- check out adac.de for that info, I was just reading it the other day, but I didn't pay that much attention to the things not pertaining to me, but I am pretty sure the 3rd row stuff is mentioned in there (along with the bus, taxi, etc info)

Sorry lil96, can't say for sure if any seat was ok before the law change. I have found information on different groups of seats for certain ages and weights, but nothing stating whether all seats were ok before April 8th or if they will grandfather in any older ones. We have been using a car seat that we brought from the US, which does not have any ECE sticker on it.

CDMexpat, did read though that using a seat after the 8th of April that doesn't have this sticker on it will cost 40€ and a point on your record in Flensburg if caught. Here is the quote from this article:

http://www.untermain.de/nachrichtensicht.a...12&ausgabe=

"Wer dennoch einen alten Kindersitz verwendet und erwischt wird, riskiert nicht nur die Sicherheit der Kleinen: 40 Euro Geldbuße und einen Punkt in Flensburg kostet das Vergehen."

rough translation--whoever still uses an old child safety seat and gets caught does not only risk the safety of the little one: the offense will cost you a 40€ fine and a point in Flensburg

I believe the 5€ fine from the first article was in reference to a warning sticker concerning the passenger side airbag.

All seats in the car are allowed except with airbags and not facing forward. The facing forward fact is a testing problem for the manufacturers since they only apply for a general certification (all regular seats facing forward) so they will not spend a bunch of money (real lot) on getting the seats certified for specific makes or seat configurations.

Thats the first I've heard of the ECE lower than 44/03 being banned but it's a good thing which should mean that all boosters will be banned to cause they only have 44/02 if I remember correctly.

I personally love the folks driving a 100,000€ car but a booster for 5,99€ or an 8th kid hand me down in the back.

Sorry cant find a comparison to US/EU standard.

Before I forget the ECE norm is not what to take into consideration but the ADAC/Stiftungwarentest.

Way to complicated it seems (figuring out the update German car seat standards). Would hate to get a point on German license (which is whole other long process to get) but I guess I could either go out and buy 3 new car seats after I figure out where to buy the best one (safety is my #1 concern not money when it comes to my kids being secure in the car) or I could also just explain that I live in the US and Germany and travel back in forth with 1 car seat for each child which happens to be non-German certified. I think I'll opt for option #2.

Thank you for the ADAC link tip on 3rd row seats.

Your Britax seat shouldn't be a problem, as they are international with Britax Romer here in germany, and in com[panies in the us and australia.

This is from the britax website...Britax Childcare designs, assembles and markets a premium range of children’s car seats and wheeled goods. Childcare has leading brands in each of its principal markets including Europe (Britax®), Australia (Safe‘n’Sound®, Steelcraft®) and the US (Britax®).

I can't imagine the graco one is any different, as they all have to meet very high standards.
I wouldn't purchase new seats...just my thoughts.

maybe there is more to this on the website, but just because a company makes/sells car seats for different countries doesn't mean they are legal in all countries. From what I understand a car seat must have the ECE stamp on it to be legally used in EU, in USA, Canada or elsewhere it has the stamp for that country. An Australian seat will have the Australian stampon it and hence cannot be used legally anywhere else (unless the 2nd country doesn't have laws pertaining to child seats.) kwim?

I received a question from someone in the US that will be visiting Germany. Will a booster seat only by ok for a 5 year old weighing 40 lbs?

If anyone can answer, would be much appreciated!

I did read this thread, but I am still confused about seats for older children and whether it goes by age or weight.

i *think* it goes by both. It probably says on ADAC.de
I can't remember though if boosters are allowed or not with the new change. If she will only be here on a short visit, then I'd say go ahead use it (as opposed to buying a brand new German seat to use on a visit). She can always rent one from adac too.

Hi, my family is moving to Erlangen July 1st. We have 2 kids (2 and 5) and were planning on taking their car seats from the US. However, I do not want to tote them all the way over (pay airline baggage fees) only to find that they are not approved by German carseat standards. I also don't want to purchase new ones in Erlangen if I don't need to. Does anyone have any experience with this? Should I take them or not?
Thanks so much,
Cristel
Topics merged by admin

Car seats are not considered baggage just like strollers are not considered against your checked baggage allowance. I still use our American bought car seats - Britax.

I'm a bit confused now by this car seat rule.

Is ECE R44/03 OK? I only found out about this law as I was reading an article in a magazine when I got my hair cut. My German is far from perfect but that seemed to indicate they needed to be R44/04. The link above read R44/03 was OK to me.

Anybody get the definative answer?

I am not positive about this, but I think that the 04 refers to different types of seats, like the 03 are booster seats and the 04s are are baby carriers, but I could be wrong and it refers to the year/model. Like all new ones are 04 (built in 2008 & here after) or ones with 03 were built according to the 2006 regulations, but are still ok. But to be safe just buy your car seat from a real dealer (not used or on ebay) and there shouldn't be a problem.

I think every company, every plane , every stewardess is different, some may consider it baggage some don't. I was once told that if the baby is flying on the lap, I was allowed to bring one baby specific item, either a stroller, pack n play or car seat. although I have never heard of them turning someone away, so I think it really depends.

If yyour kids have seats on the plane and the use their car seats on the plane, (which I suggest rather than checking them, bc you never know what will happen to them under the plane), they must be approved by the proper affiliation (like FAA) there should be a red sticker on the side of the seat that says "Approved for aircraft use" if it is not there you may not be able to bring it on the plane. I have heard that the USA seats approved for flight can be used to and from USA, but EU seats are not approved for both.

And back to the original subject, it is the law that you have a car seat approved for use in EU and seat from USA are not approved for use in EU.